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Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

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Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part? Deriving location from contact tracing is trivial. The fact that its being discussed as opt-in? If participating in society requires that you "opt-in" then what about it is really opt-in?

The part about how it works. Once you've read that (here's a link: https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu... ) Can you describe to me how you'd track individuals with it?

For starters, I would assume that most people's daily rotating keys could easily be fingerprinted based on identifiable patterns of movement that could be picked up by any number of municipal devices people come into contact with throughout the day.

In order for contact tracing to work as advertised, each person's device has to keep a log of daily ids that they contacted that has a TTL of at least a few weeks. That means that whenever a law breaker gets arrested, law enforcement would be able to confiscate their device and be able to construct a list of everyone that they've been in contact with in the last few weeks.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#182

Promising opt-in is a bit disingenuous. These tech giants are creating a technological capability. Whether or not it is opt-in, opt-out or mandatory is then decided by governments, now and in the future. This is of course nothing new. But it's worth noting considering how high the tolerance for extremely intrusive government action currently is and how extremely weak any resistance is bound to be. I'm not saying I'm…

If it's a shiny button users get to press I have no problem with it, even if govs make it mandatory in the short term for things like public transport use or non-essential shops.

This should be an app users can install and uninstall, not a feature governments control.

PS Governments are already accessing your phone records and tracking behaviour without your permission, along with recording everything you do online for at least 30 days. O Tempora, o mores!

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-government-using-mobi...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#183
post #178

https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu... > Upon a positive test of a user for COVID-19, their Diagnosis Keys and associated DayNumbers are uploaded to the Diagnosis Server. A Diagnosis Server is a server that aggregates the Diagnosis Keys from the users who tested positive and distributes them to all the user clients who are using contact tracing. Is this scalable? Earlier in the document they…

Seems like a scenario where bloom filter[1] could be useful.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_filter

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#184
post #178

https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu... > Upon a positive test of a user for COVID-19, their Diagnosis Keys and associated DayNumbers are uploaded to the Diagnosis Server. A Diagnosis Server is a server that aggregates the Diagnosis Keys from the users who tested positive and distributes them to all the user clients who are using contact tracing. Is this scalable? Earlier in the document they…

3 million is way too high. Old infections aren't interesting for this; users only need to download newly reported infections since yesterday. Limiting to broad geographic regions would also help reduce scope and not be especially privacy invasive.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#185

This is huge. A limiting factor has been iOS not being able to (on purpose, for privacy, and battery life) do BLE scanning (edit: or advertising, thanks Slartie) in the background. I imagine this will enable that for specific apps, and I have high confidence privacy will be well-implemented by Apple's involvement (edit: see tastroder's comment for technical docs). Having a single, well-designed spec for Bluetooth adv…

Exactly, this is an important narrative. I've read the spec and I'm really positive (hmm). This could be a game-changer for dealing with the pandemic in a systematic way.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#186
we need to collectively take a step back and put this pandemic into proper perspective so we don't fall for privacy and liberty erosions like this. the panic is unproductive and dangerous to our civil rights.

for context, roughly 8000 people die per day in the US. the virus has killed 2 days worth of people in the US in the 80 days of known infection, and probably ~100 days of undiagnosed infection. so covid has killed 2% of the expected number of dead. it's serious, but it's not the black plague, or even the 1918 flu. and we're already seeing transmissions curb.

the virus overwhelmingly infects others in close and closed proximity with a lot of cross-breathing going on. random airborne infections or surface infections are likely small, certainly less than 10%, probably less than 1% of infections.

so, you don't need to social distance outside unless the other person is actively coughing/sneezing (or maybe singing/talking extra forcefully) in your direction within 6 feet. you don't need a mask unless you are in close proximity (less than 6 feet) to random other people for more than a couple minutes at a time. grocery clerks, and other service workers in close proximity to strangers, on the other hand, should wear non-n95 masks (but probably not gloves) during work. same with those who are often near folks with comorbidities like age, auto-immune disease, diabetes, etc. medical providers should wear n95 masks, gloves, gowns, and take many other precautions that make no sense for the general public. you are not lowering your risks in any percepitble way by doing so. allay your anxieties with those basics, rather than looking to buy more toilet paper. it's enough, really.

the overwhelmingly most effective way to prevent transmission is to not breath in a sick person's exhaust. that's it. that's all we need to do. and yes, we don't know everyone who's carrying the virus, so it makes sense to reasonably physically distance in enclosed places like grocery stores. but not more than that as you've already reduced risk to background noise with these basic distancing rules.

contact tracing only makes sense when groups of strangers come into close proximity. it doesn't need to track every single person you brush past on the street. so for instance, you could just provide "contact tracing" with beacons in stores rather than always-on phone tracing.

let's not lose our heads, and our rights, over this.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#187
post #178

https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu... > Upon a positive test of a user for COVID-19, their Diagnosis Keys and associated DayNumbers are uploaded to the Diagnosis Server. A Diagnosis Server is a server that aggregates the Diagnosis Keys from the users who tested positive and distributes them to all the user clients who are using contact tracing. Is this scalable? Earlier in the document they…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_filter

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#188
post #178

https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu... > Upon a positive test of a user for COVID-19, their Diagnosis Keys and associated DayNumbers are uploaded to the Diagnosis Server. A Diagnosis Server is a server that aggregates the Diagnosis Keys from the users who tested positive and distributes them to all the user clients who are using contact tracing. Is this scalable? Earlier in the document they…

There wouldn't be 3 million new patients per day. Wouldn't each phone just need to download the newly-discovered cases since the last time they checked?

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#189

Am i the only one who thinks it's mindblowing that people use Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, etc. however now that Apple + Google release a tool to prevent thousands of people from dying in a pandemic they start thinking/complaining about the possible privacy implications? (without even having read the specs or knowing the details...)

Most people probably uploaded their contact list to WhatsApp without thinking about it twice.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#190

Promising opt-in is a bit disingenuous. These tech giants are creating a technological capability. Whether or not it is opt-in, opt-out or mandatory is then decided by governments, now and in the future. This is of course nothing new. But it's worth noting considering how high the tolerance for extremely intrusive government action currently is and how extremely weak any resistance is bound to be. I'm not saying I'm…

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