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Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

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Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#181

Post by op03 »

djaychela wrote: post #150

It's definitely not circuit racing, but I had some experience in Rally driving for about 10 years. Did mostly gravel stuff, and did the UK WRC round 4 times in a self built car. Definitely low budget (and low talent!) stuff, but I think I have some experience and know how a car should handle on a loose surface. I've never found a rally driving game that handles like a real car. The physics always seems off - in Dirt…

Obligatory - Also navigator excitement - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9-voINFkCg

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#182

Post by aguyfromnb »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

>let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience

Once again, random person on HackerNews, or the words of someone who has successfully made the leap:

"Of course you feel the G-force which you don't in the game, but you're so tightly strapped into the seat, that it's not really an issue."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2014/apr/07...

Here's another eSports star on the track:

https://futurism.com/sim-racing-virtual-motorsport-beat-form...

https://f1esports.com/news/esports-star-enzo-bonito-defeats-...

These guys are not down at the local track on the weekend, lapping grandpa; they are racing competitively at a high level. Obviously sitting in your living isn't the same as the track, but stating "almost nothing in common" is certainly not the case.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#183

Post by mseidl »

frankchn wrote: post #95
xyzzyz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's honestly not much of a counterexample, since you're talking about a 260hp car. Good on him for doing as well as he did, but it seems unlikely he'd be physically able to handle a Formula 1 car at all. That was 260 hp car that weighed 607 kg . Power to weight ratio is key here, and trust me, this is nothing like your usual full size car that also sports ~250 hp, but weighs 4 times as much. It might not be F1,…

True, but an F1 car is on another level with 900+ hp (including ERS) at 740 kg with driver but not fuel.

My bike has a power to weight ratio of 1000ps per ton.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#185

Post by ehnto »

djaychela wrote: post #150

It's definitely not circuit racing, but I had some experience in Rally driving for about 10 years. Did mostly gravel stuff, and did the UK WRC round 4 times in a self built car. Definitely low budget (and low talent!) stuff, but I think I have some experience and know how a car should handle on a loose surface. I've never found a rally driving game that handles like a real car. The physics always seems off - in Dirt…

The biggest missing factor in sim drifting versus real drifting, which I suspect is part of the issue in rally too, is not being able to detect that moment just before countersteer is required, as you can't feel when the rear of the car starts coming around. It means you have to preempt from experience when it happens rather than actually feeling it. With practice people get good at it, but sim drifters will often end up over rotating in a real car at first. They tend to hold onto the wheel too long while letting the rear of the car come around.

For what it's worth, my real car pivots pretty much where my seat is positioned, it feels surreal sometimes, ironically like I am in a video game.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#186

Post by huffmsa »

beobab wrote: post #180
huffmsa wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before I'd actually done any real driving, I thought Gran Turismo 4 with a Logitech wheel and pedals was the real deal. Then I started driving and realized it's not quite there. It certainly taught me about proper corner entry, but not the visceral parts of it. Even good simulators are like those "virtual rollercoasters". Not quite the same. And like you said, it's very much the "I can't feel it in the seat, I can't…

I understand what you mean. There's an incredible amount of tactile information in the real world, and I can't help feeling that there's probably almost as much information flowing in as audio or visual (that we as humans can process at any one instant), but I have been unable to find anything to back up my wild hypothesis.

People ask me why I like driving with the windows down when I can, and I tell them it's so I can hear my blindspot.

I don't think it occurs to most people that auditory queues are just as useful when driving as visual ones.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#187

Post by cosmodisk »

galkk wrote: post #88
cosmodisk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always sucked at driving games. Obviously,I could do the racing, however, I always struggled to understand how on earth it's so difficult to do it really well. I haven't played any racing games for at least 10 years.Darn it,I only drove a real car a few times.Then, a few months ago all my team from work went to do electric Go-Kart. Some of them do drive cars,some did a fair share of Go-Kart driving and etc.I think…

There's also a chance that you've got lucky with a car. Sometimes the cars at Go-Carts vary a lot with a power. On my last team meeting everyone on a car #6 was winning. It was just much faster than everybody else.

I used two different cars, as there were two sessions.The point I was trying to make wasn't about the fact I came third but rather that you have so much more info and senses when driving in real compared to a simulator.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#188

Post by ricardobeat »

ehnto wrote: post #185
djaychela wrote: post #150

It's definitely not circuit racing, but I had some experience in Rally driving for about 10 years. Did mostly gravel stuff, and did the UK WRC round 4 times in a self built car. Definitely low budget (and low talent!) stuff, but I think I have some experience and know how a car should handle on a loose surface. I've never found a rally driving game that handles like a real car. The physics always seems off - in Dirt…

The biggest missing factor in sim drifting versus real drifting, which I suspect is part of the issue in rally too, is not being able to detect that moment just before countersteer is required, as you can't feel when the rear of the car starts coming around. It means you have to preempt from experience when it happens rather than actually feeling it. With practice people get good at it, but sim drifters will often en…

I think it comes down to equipment. A good racing wheel can already give you a feeling of understeering. I just got started with entry-level stuff, but supposedly a Fanatec wheel + good seat + buttkicker (vibration generator) can get you a long way. Then you have motion platforms at €3k+ to get to the next level :)

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#189

Post by ricardobeat »

bitL wrote: post #184

Watching an e-sports race is as boring as watching a real F1 race. The interesting part of e-sports is actually playing it and not watching another bunch of dudes having fun. I think F1 is completely missing the point here.

Presumably people who enjoy watching real F1 will enjoy it too then? Pro racing is already a lot more interesting on TV than in person (besides the experience aspect).

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#190

Post by alexpotato »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

While I'm sure there is skills transfer, to highlight the above:

The Discovery channel had an episode of "On The Inside" where they profiled the Benetton F1 team. There was a lot of talk about how going into a turn and pressing the brake was like doing a one legged weight press while going side ways at multiple Gs. They showed all the conditioning that went into preparing for this etc etc

Then, they interviewed the team doctor who described how he got a chance to sit in the cockpit during a wind tunnel test. His recollection: "Everyone talks about the side to side Gs but honestly, after just a few minutes sitting in the cockpit with race condition wind speed, I could barely hold up my head. These guys really are super men."

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