Kickstarter employees vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#181

Post by rafaelvasco » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

mempko wrote: post #128

umvi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracy is cool, until we look at companies. Then it's dictatorships as the norm. Democracy is a horribly inefficient system of government. Its only redeeming quality is that it seems effective at (so far) deterring tyranny and abuse of power. However, like I said, it's horribly inefficient. Changes that are easy to make under a dictatorship can be extremely hard to make under a democracy. Not exactly a quality y…

Democracy is also a system that produces BETTER decisions. Sure tyranny can make decisions "efficiently" but that's not that great when those decisions are terrible. Democracy: Fewer macro, more micro, better decisions Command-Control: More macro, fewer micro, terrible decisions. EDIT: Another way to think of democracy is "distributed decision making" vs command-control which is "centralized decision making". When I…

Not necessarily. Democracy could only work effectively if most of the population is very well educated. Which is not the case, specially in under developed countries; Most of the time, the ignorance and lack of a more developed consciousness in a country citizens benefits those that are in power, as ignorant people are much easier to manipulate so that it stays that way;

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#182

Post by Jweb_Guru » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #120

> a historic win for unionization efforts at tech companies. Kickstarter is a small company which isn't representative at all for other tech companies, so I doubt this will mean much for efforts at other companies. For example, a majority of their staff at every level are women (a quick glance at their linkedin shows that this is likely true for engineering roles as well) but that doesn't say anything about gender eq…

The fact that Kickstarter is unusual for a tech company does not make the fact that it was able to unionize any less historic. Keep in mind that it is far from the first tech company (small or not) to attempt to unionize.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#183

Post by dd36 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

mempko wrote: post #152

_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

If you don't think there is waste and ridiculous rules without unions, you need to work for any medium to large company. Large/medium sized companies are run with tiny fiefdoms where the more people working under you means more power. You don't need unions to have people do bullshit and useless wasteful work.

Agreed. All people protect their realm regardless of unions.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#184

Post by codingmess » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #76

rolltiide wrote: post #25

Opinions aside, you have to see the writing is on the wall.

However you feel about unions (and I personally have many reservations), if tech workers unionize, management will have nobody to blame but themselves. They've had decades to listen to us, and they've responded with open offices, JIRA (or the equivalent) ticket quotas, unpaid overtime, whiteboard coding interviews and zero training. We're well paid but besides that, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a way we could coll…

You can always start your own company if you are unhappy about other companies' conduct.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#185

Post by Mangalor » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #105

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just formed a company back in December. Super easy to set up an LLC, C or S Corp. But I wanted it to be a worker co-op like Mondragon. And there's no real guidance or help. Democracy is cool, until we look at companies. Then it's dictatorships as the norm. And trying to do it right from the ground up is high impossible. As a obligatory comment: are there any other in the HN-sphere that focuses on worker cooperative…

> Democracy is cool, until we look at companies. Then it's dictatorships as the norm. Democracy is a horribly inefficient system of government. Its only redeeming quality is that it seems effective at (so far) deterring tyranny and abuse of power. However, like I said, it's horribly inefficient. Changes that are easy to make under a dictatorship can be extremely hard to make under a democracy. Not exactly a quality y…

Maybe what would improve these companies is not pure democracy, but rather a bill of rights for workers. This can include a mutual contract over pay and benefits, depending on how well the company is doing, with a legitimate appeals process for both sides.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#186

Post by jrochkind1 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

joncrane wrote: post #109

mason55 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. One has no incentive to excel, as promotions are based on years "served", much like prison. There is nothing inherent in unions that make them operate like that.

It's something inherent in human nature, unfortunately.

There are ALL SORTS of inefficiencies and insanity and laziness and treating people like garbage most of us have experienced at non-union workplaces, of course.

That union shops may seem to be subject to extra risks of of certain types of nonsense doesn't mean they aren't a win overall.

But yeah, to be honest, some people with unions find they need to struggle with union leadership over some things. It's generally a lot better overall than struggling with your boss.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#187

Post by namdnay » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #2

> That dynamic doesn’t reflect who we are as a company, how we interact, how we make decisions, or where we need to go. We believe that in many ways it would set us back, and that the us vs. them binary already has. What a shameful statement. Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor, and a sub-50% CEO approval rating. A lot of reviews talk about a secretive, insulated management group. You don’t see companies with 4.…

Or even better: your employees are unionizing? Great! It means you have an organized structure to discuss employee satisfaction with!

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#188

Post by erik998 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #39

danharaj wrote: post #6

As a contractor, I'm happy for them. One day we will have one big union.

As a contractor, I am happy to have absolutely nothing to do with unions.

You can be a contractor with your own S-corp and still get the same benefits as union members if you are in an industry that has union workers like SAG.

https://www.wrapbook.com/how-to-set-up-a-loan-out-company/

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#189

Post by jschwartzi » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

qzx_pierri wrote: post #144

ditonal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people on HN constantly claim that companies are right to consider “a false negative is better than a false positive”, act like insane interview gauntlets are normal and desired, AND claim that people can easily change jobs? It’s not true. I live in the SF Bay Area, have worked as a SWE for 10+ years including at top companies like Google, and changing jobs is NOT easy and I’m sick of the implication it is. Th…

You sound spoiled, but go off

I graduated 11 years ago when they were firing teachers because the school districts were going bankrupt. I had to take a job clerking in a warehouse to make ends meet. That was a lesson that all my prospects could go sour in a matter of a couple of months. So please tell me how I had an easy time because I'm an engineer now.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#190

Post by zip1234 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

mason55 wrote: post #99

_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

> Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. One has no incentive to excel, as promotions are based on years "served", much like prison. There is nothing inherent in unions that make them operate like that.

I had a uncle that was a bricklayer and moved somewhere that bricklayers were in demand so that he could get paid more. He was not a union member. When the union found out he was doing the same work for slightly less, they sent some people over to threaten his life if he didn't join union or leave. He left.