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Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

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Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#181

Post by vertig0h »

tsycho wrote: post #175
dijit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a junior sysadmin in London I earned 26k; If not for a senior engineer talking openly about salary I would not have had the guts to ask for a significant increase. At the time the very senior people in the company were earning 75-85k, and the mid-levels between 32-45k. I was fortunate enough to be taught very well, I became senior in that company in a very short amount of time, but I never got the raise th…

Orthogonal to your anecdote, tech salaries in London are ridiculously low :(

Welcome to Europe. European salaries in general are low. Take home pay too, and goods and services are much more expensive. It's important for people to realize this, that "free" healthcare, education, etc. are far from free.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#182

Post by zeroonetwothree »

motohagiography wrote: post #158

Contrarian view: salary disclosure destroys value for people with negotiating skills, which are among the most valuable and useful skills of all. Disclosure advantages people who collude to apply political pressure (gang up) instead of appealing to principles or leveraging their skill and the value they bring. There is general social and economic harm to facilitating this behaviour. Disclosure lowers all boats in tha…

Why should people get paid more for better negotiating skills if those don’t help them do a better job? It’s good that we eliminate that factor as much as possible. I’d rather go for meritocracy.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#183

Post by topkai22 »

komali2 wrote: post #77
quelltext wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, safety nets etc. do not really offset this. That's because Europe also has higher taxes though/autodeductions. When someone in Germany casually says 50k per year pre tax, they typically mean pre deductions (tax and social/health insurance) and the effective received money is more around 25k per year. People in the US underestimate how much of ones salary a European has to give up for that safety net.

If we're going to calculate like that I think it's only fair to calculate in the average American's medical cost including insurance premiums which can put quite the dent in effective take home pay.

Roughly $5k/year out of pocket, with employers posting $17k for full family coverage for very good insurance (as it goes in the US).

Health care costs in the us are the most burdensome on the working poor and lower middle class because they stay a fixed cost even as income rises. For well paid tech workers, moving to the US and going from $75k to $105k/ year (the median for the US BTW) is probably going to be a good move economically. A roofer moving for a $30k to $40k bump is a much dodgier proposition.

An aside, I saw a great analysis a few years back looking at the increasing income gap in the US. It determined that a large part of the gap can be laid at the feet of rising health care benefits to employers. The math is simple and interesting. In 1990 worker A costs an employer $10k ($8k in pay and $2k in benefits) and worker B costs $100k ($98k in pay, $2k in benefits). In 2020 worker A costs $25k, but a whopping $10k now goes to health insurance, meaning thier pay is only $15k and saw an 87% increase even though the employer saw a 250% increase in cost. Worker B? They got went from $100k to $250 in total cost, but saw thier pay go from $98k to $290k, or a 244% increase.

The highly paid worker saw a 3x more percentage increase compared to the low paid worker, even though their cost to the employer increased by the same percentage.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#184

Post by paul7986 »

Reading the tweets and those who have many years of experience (live in the US) and are not making what they should says they do not know how to get their best deal. Like any software dev who wants to maximize their salary should never stay at one job for more then a year or two. Job jumping and using recruiters to do so is a great way to give yourself a big boost with each new job you jump to. Staying put in one job for more then a year or two makes no sense in present time if your goal is to maximize your salary.

Im sure if there was a study it would show those who job jump are making a ton more then those who are loyal to a company.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#185

Post by kube-system »

cactus2093 wrote: post #176

This makes me stop to reflect on the question of how much money does one really need? Surely at least enough to cover your basic needs like food and shelter. To be housing secure it seems reasonable to want to buy rather than just rent. It’s wild that this is one of the hottest, highest paying industries, and most of the people in this thread working in SF couldn’t afford to do so (by some napkin calculations it take…

Situations like this make me wonder how much money there is to be made by going remote.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#186

Post by DonHopkins »

badfrog wrote: post #68
tnolet wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. This is the same vibe I got. A dick measuring contest between the 1% SV based software developers. But wrapped in a “help the world” message. The information is fascinating though. And we could have misread the subtext.

That's not fair. NYC-based software developers also like to measure our junk.

Measure twice, cut once.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#187

Post by xenihn »

senordevnyc wrote: post #122
xenihn wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come see it for yourself. I can get you into a bunch of the biggest offices & campuses through friends.

I work at a big tech company and I have friends at many others. What you’re reporting does not match my experience, theirs, the data, or common sense. These companies are constantly getting flak for low diversity. If white men were a clear minority, they’d be shouting it from the rooftops. What you observe in your day to day is a poor barometer for the overall diversity of an entire industry.

You seem to be missing the point entirely (most clearly evidenced by you using the term "clear minority", when no one made anything resembling that claim), so let me try to break it down for you.

The goal is to eventually reach a 50/50 gender distribution (or as close as possible) for the sake of diversity, right?

If you understand the concept of trends, and you are actually looking at all of the things that you just listed, then you should be able to see that we are heading towards an outcome where the female 50% is overwhelmingly Asian, from middle and upper-class backgrounds.

I personally don't have a problem with this. I really don't care. I'm not Asian or white, but all of my friends are. More culture fit matches for me.

But I'm not the one who thinks that classism (and the subtle racism associated with it) can just be swept under the rug by focusing exclusively on gender. You don't actually support diversity if you're okay with the way things are currently headed, so please don't claim as much.

I also suggest you google the term "plurality" and learn what it means within the same context as minorities and majorities. That may have been the word you were looking for.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#188

Post by k__ »

kube-system wrote: post #185
cactus2093 wrote: post #176

This makes me stop to reflect on the question of how much money does one really need? Surely at least enough to cover your basic needs like food and shelter. To be housing secure it seems reasonable to want to buy rather than just rent. It’s wild that this is one of the hottest, highest paying industries, and most of the people in this thread working in SF couldn’t afford to do so (by some napkin calculations it take…

Situations like this make me wonder how much money there is to be made by going remote.

I live in Germany and work for US companies, which is quite lucrative.

I only work a few months a year.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#189

Post by 38911BBF »

motohagiography wrote: post #158

Contrarian view: salary disclosure destroys value for people with negotiating skills, which are among the most valuable and useful skills of all. Disclosure advantages people who collude to apply political pressure (gang up) instead of appealing to principles or leveraging their skill and the value they bring. There is general social and economic harm to facilitating this behaviour. Disclosure lowers all boats in tha…

Opposite view: Salary disclosure primarily destroys value for people with strong negotiating skills but who are not necessarily the best contenders for the actual job - especially when it comes to highly specialized tech jobs as many of them are introverts. It also enables work force diversity which is actually the best outcome for the company in the long run.

Salary disclosure is also a prerequisite for having a public discourse about equal pay and equal rights based on factual information. You might call that to: "gang up", but I certainly wouldn't.

Our daughters, girldfriends, mothers and sisters are all living breating people in our lives - maybe even the most important ones we have where as a company is just a thing. My own startups are just a piece of paper, a tax information number, an organizational construct, nothing more. I can create another one in 2-3 days. Close a company and if there's customer demand, another one will just spring to life and fill the gap. I might be sad and in debt for a while, but society at large will not even notice. It doesn't matter.

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