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The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

jarednelsen.dev

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Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#181

Post by heartbeats »

gonehome wrote: post #119
Cu3PO42 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must admit I always feel weird when I see numbers like that mentioned for software engineers. In Germany a more reasonable number with a few years of experience might be in the €50-55k ballpark. Granted, the cost of living is significantly lower in most cities here than it is in the bay area, but still it just feels... weird. Edit: Fixed a typo.

I think Europe (and the UK) undervalue software engineers. At least in the UK this seems like a cultural thing where management is high status/high value and engineers are low status/low value. I think the US generally gets this right (at least in silicon valley), but it could partly be because the US has some extremely valuable software companies that operate on a global stage that aren't really present elsewhere. R…

There's only really one place that can have these big tech companies, and that is the US. What technology companies of note do the UK have?

It's just stupid nonsense like "writing spreadsheets for the local government" and minor web development. In tech, it really is US vs. ROW

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#182

Post by ummonk »

lkrubner wrote: post #31
Analemma_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the problem was oversupply, we wouldn't be getting the cushy salaries and benefits we do. I think the issue is more that it's pretty easy for people with no programming ability to appear competent on a resume, especially to a clueless HR rep or headhunter. There are a lot of people out there whose backgrounds look good on paper who can't solve FizzBuzz...

For most programming jobs wages are lower now than in 1995. Back then, I had many friends who were charging $100 an hour just to build VisualBasic apps and they had more work than they could handle. And Phillip Greenspan has written that his company, from 1996 onwards, offered $100,000 to recent college grads. That was really good money back then, especially if you wanted to buy a house. Wages right now only look goo…

100k then would be 170k today, in line with (if not slightly lower than) entry level comp at FANG companies.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#183

Post by Igelau »

The heart of the issue is that the interview and even the application process are geared towards finding this mythical coder who lives to churn out code. "URL for website or GitHub repo" is a required field on so many applications now. Sorry... between music, art, exercise, children, and commuting, finding unpaid time to do my job even more is a little tricky!

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#184

Post by [deleted] »

dickjocke wrote: post #135
ideal0227 wrote: post #90

When my classmates were preparing interview coding questions, I was working on a mini TCP implementation and a toy kernel. AWS rejected me since I failed to write prefect code to traverse a tree in level order. Google did not even give me an interview since I told the campus recruiter I have not prepared for the coding questions. Then I ended up with an internship at CoreOS and created etcd. I am glad that they did n…

Also after the Redhat and then IBM acquisition I wonder if you came out in a better position in the end anyway.

[deleted]

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#185

Post by bretpiatt »

newfeatureok wrote: post #154
starpilot wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has strong data that it does predict job performance, better than GPA, college degree and so on. What are your aggregate data showing that Google is wrong on this?

I’d be curious to see this data. Have a link?

Google's 2013 study called Project Oxygen says different, "The seven top characteristics of success at Google are all soft skills: being a good coach; communicating and listening well; possessing insights into others (including others different values and points of view); having empathy toward and being supportive of one’s colleagues; being a good critical thinker and problem solver; and being able to make connections across complex ideas."

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/12/...

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#187

Post by [deleted] »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #114
kyllo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to acquire and apply technical knowledge, and ability to demonstrate random technical knowledge under time pressure, in a foreign environment, while other people are watching and judging you, are orthogonal skills and many engineers are great at the former and terrible at the latter. There's also a ton of opinion and taste involved in software engineering, which can bias the interviewer's view of someone'…

Time pressure, foreign environments, and people watching/judging your work are all exactly the things that happen when you're developing stuff that hasn't been done. You run into problems. You find out that requirements or an API spec weren't perfectly written and have to deal with change. You have to work with other people, and they will judge you. Hard coding exercises with a time limit that have an answer that can…

[deleted]

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#188

Post by agumonkey »

KungFuJohnny wrote: post #127
agumonkey wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many people suggest me to lie. So many do. When you don't (anxious, imposter, doubtful or else), recruiter hasn't shiny eyes so you fail. It's a recipee for fake.

They lie to you. Why should you feel bad about lying to them?

That was another reason indeed.

For science I tried an blatant lie, and it was the most horrendous experience I ever felt regarding work. I was gutted and never want to do it again. But factually, I don't think it mattered to them, it was just smalltalk to them. Although I'm not 100% sure they didn't see through.

Oh and ironically, some recruiters casted doubt on very factual and true parts of my resume.

I mean what stupid game is this.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#189

Post by jpindar »

proximitysauce wrote: post #3

In addition to all of the very dystopian examples given in this post, there are other non-technical, super-dystopian things that have been popping up as "trends" in the tech industry. Ever heard of top-grading? It's the most oppressive interview technique of all time. A series of grueling multi-person interviews. A retrospective of all work experiences since high school . You also have to get multiple prior employers…

Great way to weed out older developers, since there's a good chance that some of the companies they've worked for have gone out of business or been acquired, and some of their references have died.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#190

Post by heartbeats »

paxys wrote: post #60
closed wrote: post #35

Something that strikes me in reading articles like this, is the distopian part often seems to be thinking about this: p(job_capable | not_interview_capable) That is, it's crazy that an interview could miss so many people qualified for the job. However, I wonder if oftentimes companies are aiming for.. p(job_capable | interview_capable) If p(job_capable | interview_capable) is high, and p(interview_capable) is pretty…

A simple way of saying this - companies are optimizing for filtering out bad candidates, at the expense of sometimes filtering out good candidates. Because the cost of hiring the wrong person is a LOT higher than missing out on the right one.

> Because the cost of hiring the wrong person is a LOT higher than missing out on the right one.

Why can't anyone come up with a good solution for this? A "we'll hire you for a month and see how it goes" kind of deal?

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