Medications that change who we are • Hacker News Board

Re: Medications that change who we are

#181

Post by samcodes » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #138

I take gabapentin for a spinal issue (nerve damage in my spine) and it has a drastic and noticeable effect, I'm naturally quiet and introverted but when I take the higher prescribed dose that changes radically, I become outgoing and talkative, I have more confidence and I seem to be more creative (though that could just be the reduction in pain). It definitely alters my mood and I can feel it happen.

I was on a large dose of gabapentin for anxiety for a few years. It felt similar to the flow of a beer, before the negative parts of the alcohol kicked in

Re: Medications that change who we are

#182

Post by lanstin » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

jdcaron wrote: post #165

maxerickson wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also consider the other direction -- how fresh vegetables and fruit, plus whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and herbs improve mood, behavior, resilience. Throw in some vigorous exercise, and for most people, drugs can't do better, without the drugs' side effects and cost. If you look at health outcomes, this is sort of obviously not true. I don't mean the health benefits of the things you mention, I mean the "f…

Are you really trying to say that promoting a nutritious diet supported by physical activity doesn't work for "most people"? You call that engaged advocacy? What he claimed is true and backed by multiple studies. Doing a healthy dose of physical activity with a healthy diet can only be beneficial, no downside whatsoever. It's quite underrated I guess. Too many humans wish for a magic pill, they delude themselves into…

What he said is imagining you will start eating well and exercising is rather far from eating well and exercising. I know of no intentional changes that are less successful than trying to eat healthy for the rest of life. Even smokers have better luck with quitting. (Talking long term here - eating better for six months isn’t that useful).

Re: Medications that change who we are

#183

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:51 PM UTC

jdcaron wrote: post #165

maxerickson wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also consider the other direction -- how fresh vegetables and fruit, plus whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and herbs improve mood, behavior, resilience. Throw in some vigorous exercise, and for most people, drugs can't do better, without the drugs' side effects and cost. If you look at health outcomes, this is sort of obviously not true. I don't mean the health benefits of the things you mention, I mean the "f…

Are you really trying to say that promoting a nutritious diet supported by physical activity doesn't work for "most people"? You call that engaged advocacy? What he claimed is true and backed by multiple studies. Doing a healthy dose of physical activity with a healthy diet can only be beneficial, no downside whatsoever. It's quite underrated I guess. Too many humans wish for a magic pill, they delude themselves into…

Yes, that's the point, people don't do the whole good lifestyle thing and in many cases will be better off taking a drug vs not taking it.

I would say my comment is criticism of the advocacy in the other post, not really advocacy itself.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#184

Post by jmvoodoo » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #68

aphextron wrote: post #32

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

Even if the brain is not apart from the rest of the body, there is a special thing between the two: the blood-brain barrier, which is actually quite hard to cross with medications, and poses a real challange in curing brain diseases.

It seemed like the reduced cholesterol was what impacted personality. I don't know if statins cross the blood brain barrier but if cholesterol levels themselves drive behavior changes it doesn't seem like they would need to in order to have an impact. This was the most interesting take away for me because it means that crossing the barrier isn't always necessary as indirect effects can be powerful as well.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#185

Post by lanstin » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #54

spodek wrote: post #51

Let's also consider the other direction -- how fresh vegetables and fruit, plus whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and herbs improve mood, behavior, resilience. Throw in some vigorous exercise, and for most people, drugs can't do better, without the drugs' side effects and cost. For many people, switching from a standard American diet to largely those ingredients would register as changing who they are. I just finishe…

You could argue that any kind of self-improvement, therapy, dealing with depression and other issues, changes who you are. The big question is: do they change you for the better or for worse? If they make you happier, more balanced, more in control of your behaviour, then I'd argue that's a good think. If they make you angry, uncontrolled, a slave to your impulses, then that's bad. A lot of the stuff we put in our bo…

What if you are happier but become a sex pest (phrase I learned from TFA)?

Re: Medications that change who we are

#186

Post by quickthrower2 » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

mikro2nd wrote: post #82

hprotagonist wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I used to think that the brain was the most important part of the body. Then i realized who was telling me that...”

I used to think the brain was the most important part of the body. Then my arsehole clenched shut for a week...

Hope you tore it a new one!

Re: Medications that change who we are

#187

Post by samcodes » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

jiofih wrote: post #123

hrt_throw wrote: post #16

I am very curious about how transgender HRT affects personality. In a sense, HRT is supposed to change who one is, but the personality changes people undergo on it seem underappreciated and not really understood or studied clinically. At least I have not been able to find a published study specifically about about how HRT changes personality. I think not all of it can be attributed to decreased gender dysphoria or pe…

I think most people don’t have the context to understand half of what’s being said there.

This is a funny comment on HN, where it is very easy, for me at least, to be so far out of my element that I have no clue what is being discussed, such as any post about hardware!

Re: Medications that change who we are

#188

Post by colordrops » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 8:11 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #32

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

To take it further, an even greater sin is perpetuating the idea there is a static "you". "You" are a conglomerate of coordinating and competing systems and are ever changing.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#189

Post by zzzeek » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 8:14 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #32

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

actually a big chunk of this article is about cholesterol-lowering statins being linked to mood disorders, a medication which purportedly has no psychiatric impact at all. The reliance the medical industry has on statin drugs cannot die fast enough for me.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#190

Post by droithomme » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

> with the US alone buying up 49,000 tonnes of paracetamol every year – equivalent to about 298 paracetamol tablets per person

Commonly sold as the brand Tylenol. How is it possible that the average across the US population is nearly one per day, the entire year? Max dose is 3900mg per day. Tylenol is not recommended for children with fevers as it can have bad side effects (Reye's Syndrome). More popular than aspirin perhaps as less risk of ulcers. Not as safe as Advil/ibuprofen. Even for people regularly taking pain meds, not all will be on paracetamol. Those taking it every day (perhaps 5% of the population?) must be taking 10-20 tablets a day?

> – and the average American consuming $1,200 worth of prescription medications over the same period.

I know there are people taking pills that cost tens or hundreds of thousands, but this is still a pretty amazing average number across the population. This year I spent just over $100 on meds and that was probably one of the most med-intensive years of my life. Most years I have spent perhaps $10 for one round of antibiotics and $2 on advil, which I buy a $6 bottle every 3 years or so. So under $20. I wonder if the numbers are significantly less for most other countries.