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U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#181

Post by 616c »

grepfru_it wrote: post #113
ArtWomb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The export ban is on the software? Not the algorithm itself? And would it be broad enough that all AI and QI frameworks like PyTorch, Tensorflow and Qiskit would fall under its purview. These restrictions seem to flow from a mental model that still views software as a product purchased in a shrink-wrapped box. Rather than the services based model currently extant.

That is the point, to delay the adversary from gaining access to completed technology. An example is foreign adversaries purchasing PS3s with Linux to quickly access cheap computing power. Whether frameworks are at risk is limited to the wording of the ban and then the final determination comes from a judge hearing the case. The chilling effects are real and its possible framework development may very well be hampere…

The PS3 thing is a contrived example or this really was happening?

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#182

Post by int_19h »

qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #130
olivierduval wrote: post #92

It's funny: it reminds me of "strong cryptography export ban" in the 2000's (btw, Oracle java still have it: you must download strong crypto package separatly)... Obviously, it failed! You can stop a single vendor with unique technology to provide hardware components with bans, but you can't stop a whole field spreading knowledge!!! People come and go, meet, talk, write, exchange knowledges... so sooner or later (and…

Remember what he did? Software was specifically listed under export controls. So, he printed the code in a book to be OCR’d and further compiled into the software. No export controls on a book.

That was the theory, but I don't recall courts ever actually ruling on this.

There was also the RSA t-shirt. The originals are no longer being sold, unfortunately, but these days it's easy enough to do a custom design for your own made to order. My take: https://www.customink.com/ndx/?cid=jxu0-00bx-9p0k

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#183

Post by utopian3 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #102
olivierduval wrote: post #92

It's funny: it reminds me of "strong cryptography export ban" in the 2000's (btw, Oracle java still have it: you must download strong crypto package separatly)... Obviously, it failed! You can stop a single vendor with unique technology to provide hardware components with bans, but you can't stop a whole field spreading knowledge!!! People come and go, meet, talk, write, exchange knowledges... so sooner or later (and…

I don't think the government actually wanted to stop math [1] from leaving the border. It was just a tool to use against people they suspected being involved espionage. Just another reason to put you in a cell. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_algorithm

> It was just a tool to use against people they suspected being involved espionage. Just another reason to put you in a cell. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_algorithm

The wiki link you provided does not have the words "export" or "espionage". Are you trying to imply that R,S, and A were suspected of espionage? You'll need a real source for that..

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#184

Post by bookAlot »

In the US, selling weapons and internet tools is like making every day household items look like middle school. We still can't figure in that this stuff isn't a service. It's production. Something tangible. Gotta have parts. But service is easy to remember if you consider the person conducting their end of a service, that's between you two as them the representative.

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#186

Post by afarrell »

olivierduval wrote: post #92

It's funny: it reminds me of "strong cryptography export ban" in the 2000's (btw, Oracle java still have it: you must download strong crypto package separatly)... Obviously, it failed! You can stop a single vendor with unique technology to provide hardware components with bans, but you can't stop a whole field spreading knowledge!!! People come and go, meet, talk, write, exchange knowledges... so sooner or later (and…

> you can't stop a whole field spreading knowledge!!!

Is it foolish that the US government continues to try to restrict the spread of nuclear engineering?

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#187

Post by nl »

ArtWomb wrote: post #110
withinrafael wrote: post #25

Additional details are present in the unpublished rule (document 2019-27649 [1][2]). -- cut -- Geospatial imagery “software” “specially designed” for training a Deep Convolutional Neural Network to automate the analysis of geospatial imagery and point clouds, and having all of the following: 1. Provides a graphical user interface that enables the user to identify objects (e.g., vehicles, houses, etc.) from within geo…

The export ban is on the software? Not the algorithm itself? And would it be broad enough that all AI and QI frameworks like PyTorch, Tensorflow and Qiskit would fall under its purview. These restrictions seem to flow from a mental model that still views software as a product purchased in a shrink-wrapped box. Rather than the services based model currently extant.

And would it be broad enough that all AI and QI frameworks like PyTorch, Tensorflow and Qiskit would fall under its purview.

No.

They look like they are targeting a specific piece of commercial software.

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#188

Post by karmelapple »

616c wrote: post #181
grepfru_it wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the point, to delay the adversary from gaining access to completed technology. An example is foreign adversaries purchasing PS3s with Linux to quickly access cheap computing power. Whether frameworks are at risk is limited to the wording of the ban and then the final determination comes from a judge hearing the case. The chilling effects are real and its possible framework development may very well be hampere…

The PS3 thing is a contrived example or this really was happening?

Real! Check out number 1 here: https://www.visualcompliance.com/blog/?p=185

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#189

Post by Mirioron »

afarrell wrote: post #186
olivierduval wrote: post #92

It's funny: it reminds me of "strong cryptography export ban" in the 2000's (btw, Oracle java still have it: you must download strong crypto package separatly)... Obviously, it failed! You can stop a single vendor with unique technology to provide hardware components with bans, but you can't stop a whole field spreading knowledge!!! People come and go, meet, talk, write, exchange knowledges... so sooner or later (and…

> you can't stop a whole field spreading knowledge!!! Is it foolish that the US government continues to try to restrict the spread of nuclear engineering?

Probably yes. They're clearly not succeeding at it and in return this has probably caused feuds between countries and peoples that will last decades if not centuries.

Re: U.S. government limits exports of artificial intelligence software

#190

Post by Mirioron »

ehnto wrote: post #132
fyfy18 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be suprised if we get something along the lines of "Unfortunately, this repository is currently unavailable in your country" sometime soon. Many websites still completely block EU users post GDPR, e.g. Chicago Tribune.

Imagine a world where your project dependencies can be deprecated by import/export law.

What's there to imagine? We already live in such a world.
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