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France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

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Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#181
post #3

In today's world of race to the finish (/ bottom) journalism, I think it should be mandatory for all publications to have an addendum to each article, which contains: * list of sources of information and original research conducted ( including names of interviewees, only anonymized with a justification, links, etc ) * a sign-off by a journalist (note: not supposed to imply responsibility or liability for accuracy of…

I wonder why journalists don't voluntarily to this? It seems obvious to me that high quality journalism should cite sources and methods, if only to protect themselves from future criticism if their news reporting turns out to be wrong. At least then they can point at the fault publicly, explain how it happened, and what they are changing to make sure it doesn't happen again. In some cases, they might deliberately not…

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Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#182

My trust of bloomberg has been pretty low since the spy chip story, that seems to have been just a hoax. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

Any guesses to why aren't Super Micro or other affected parties taking legal action, if it was a hoax like what's reported in this case?

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#184
post #99
post #11

Do you remember the Bloomberg article about Big China Chip Hack? About Apple was been refuted, debunked, and ridiculed. See https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/04/editorial-a-year-...

I'm still not sure what to think of that. I don't think there's much of any "evidence" to prove it and a hack like that is pretty. Then again nobody ... did anything after that either and everyone responded kinda awkwardly about it. I can't help but wonder if they got it dead wrong, but anyone clarifying or suing to prove otherwise would expose something else and so ... nobody talks?

>> I can't help but wonder if they got it dead wrong, but anyone clarifying or suing to prove otherwise would expose something else and so ... nobody talks?

Sure. What if the boards were hacked, but not by the Chinese? What if some company insiders knew? Just wildly speculating, but the response at the time seemed odd to me.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is so odd to me. On the one hand, if true, all Bloomberg had to do was produce evidence; a single compromised server. They didn't. On the other hand, if the journalists fabricated the entire story, saying that all these big companies were hacked, why didn't anybody sue them? It was a major accusation! It just kinda...disappeared.

> On the one hand, if true, all Bloomberg had to do was produce evidence; a single compromised server. They didn't. If the story were true, under what circumstances could Bloomberg reports have come into possession of a compromised sever to satisfy this requirement? > On the other hand, if the journalists fabricated the entire story Journalists evaluate and report what they're told by sources. For instance: they don'…

It's kind of not the case here. First, they're not required to take any claims at face value, they can (and would be expected to) verify if they're actually true by looking at the evidence their sources provide - and if there's no evidence, then they'd be expected to note that it's all speculation.

Second, at least some of the claimed sources were not anonymous and were interviewed later by others (there were a few HN threads back them some weeks after the initial story) and they explicitly disclaimed that they have confirmed the case, but rather that all they have told Bloomberg is essentially "something like this might be theoretically possible, sure, but the current evidence doesn't suggest that this has happened" - so we have some evidence that these Bloomberg journalists "attempted" to corroborate multiple sources which did not confirm the story that they wanted to tell, but they went ahead with the story anyway.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#186

The headline probably needs qualification that the fine was in Europe, not the U.S. I was shocked that any U.S. regulator would attempt to push against the First Amendment in this way. It's a different story with more context.

> push against the First Amendment

This isn't a freedom of speech issue since obviously they were free to say whatever they wanted, lies and misinformation included. This doesn't imply freedom from consequences.

Causing a company to lose 18% value because they couldn't be bothered to verify is negligence, incompetence, or malice (or a combination) not freedom of speech and it's only fair to receive a fine. Bloomberg is making a habit of such reporting.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#187

The headline probably needs qualification that the fine was in Europe, not the U.S. I was shocked that any U.S. regulator would attempt to push against the First Amendment in this way. It's a different story with more context.

I am not familiar enough with US customs but first amendment (free speech) seems irrelevant here. Bloomberg got fined for market manipulation by the AMF, the French organization equivalent to the SEC/FCA in the USA/UK.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One avenue that I think hasn't been fully explored/exhausted yet is false advertising regulation. Calling your product "news" carries a an entirely reasonable expectation that the product is free of falsehoods. (I'm not getting into bias, just absence of lies) What would happen if we made that term (or synonyms like "journalism") protected advertising terms, so that you're required to either live up to it, or call yo…

Lies are still protected free speech in most circumstances. Additionally you have the problem of policing who decides what is illegal

I'm not advocating that they can't say whatever they want.. only that they can't call it news if outright falsehoods are being passed. The same way you can't market your product as beef unless it meets certain standards, or your Bitcoin company as a bank, and so on.

This is a labeling/marketing law, nothing more. You are not excempt from those by way of being a media organization. Certainly it is not a speech restriction. As a bonus, it would allow competitors to market on that label since now it actually means something.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#189
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this accusation thrown out there on social media a few times now. When I've asked for examples, no one been able to provide a list showing that this is actually a systemic problem. With resources like the Internet Archive it should be trivial to prove that this really a problem. Can you back up your claims? Journalists are people and make mistakes. But overall, respected institutions like NYT, WSJ, WaPo, an…

I see this happening pretty much every day for political news. I don't keep track of a list, but here is a recent example: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/13/us/politics/bernie-sander... > Mr. Uygur, a longtime supporter of Mr. Sanders, has also disparaged former President Barack Obama on his show, argued that bestiality should be legal and hosted white supremacist figures, including David Duke. In one clip that circ…

The Cenk Uygur situation is part of a broader trend I observe where traditional media outlets have a highly negative bias, to the point that it often ventures into the realm of fabrication, towards news and people in new media. News distributed via YouTube and social media and similar are an existential threat to the traditional news publications, and the thus there exists a fundamental conflict of interest when the latter covers the former.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#190

My trust of bloomberg has been pretty low since the spy chip story, that seems to have been just a hoax. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...

Any guesses to why aren't Super Micro or other affected parties taking legal action, if it was a hoax like what's reported in this case?

Being in the news several more times for a case about "spy chips" in your hardware isn't worth any money they'd get?
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