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If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

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Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#181

Post by djohnston »

Nextgrid wrote: post #68
adgineer wrote: post #48

FB ads engineer here. Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago) 2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.) Hypertargeting doesn't work. Targeting small audiences doesn'…

Your systems are sophisticated enough to make people believe their phones are listening to them in the background even when that's not the case. So even if you think they are primitive, a lot of people thinks they're more than sophisticated enough to be creepy.

People also think God made the earth in 6 days. What mass groups of people believe isn't indicative of Jack.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#182

Post by ceejayoz »

cm2012 wrote: post #169
ceejayoz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook's not helping this conspiracy theory with their "why did I see this ad?" dialog. I'll see a clearly hyper-targeted ad (for example, a psoriasis medication) and click that button and it'll say "they wanted to reach people in the United States between 18-65!" I know I was targeted by that ad. I know they're just showing me the most general bit of the targeting info that was used to put that ad in front of me.…

I am a professional FB advertiser. The advertisers are probably choosing to target everyone on FB in that age range, but asking FB to optimize for conversions. Then the FB algorithm finds more people who look like people who are clicking and converting.

That feels a bit like money laundering for targeting parameters.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#183

Post by tripzilch »

iscoelho wrote: post #174
danShumway wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook doesn't need to backdoor your encrypted messages to use WhatsApp for ads, there's still a lot of interesting data they can get based just on the metadata of who you converse with. And that's not paranoia, it's openly something that Facebook is doing right now[0]. > In a blogpost, WhatsApp announced it would begin sharing names and phone numbers with its parent company, to allow its more than 1 billion users…

These types of companies won't get any good press no matter what they do. Everyone will find some way to justify their actions as evil. Everyone will find some way to say "they are still evil on the inside, just pretending not to be." People are not understanding this encourages these companies to stay the same. You can not satisfy those who do not want satisfaction. But let's attack this argument on a technical leve…

> But let's attack this argument on a technical level again: The data you speak of already resides in Facebook's database.

False. I've been a WhatsApp user for many years, I've never been a Facebook user. So they definitely extracted data from WhatsApp that they didn't have before.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#184

Post by tripzilch »

adgineer wrote: post #48

FB ads engineer here. Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago) 2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.) Hypertargeting doesn't work. Targeting small audiences doesn'…

> Also, ethics.

Oh really? Can you give me an example of a decision actually driven by ethics? That is the decision was NOT made based on how much compute it spends, the material impact on delivery value, or because of meaningful business value, or whatever.

Because I find it hard to believe that FB makes decisions based on ethics, instead of merely highlighting otherwise motivated decisions that seemingly happen to align with ethical values.

Like, that the ethical aspect actually caused the decision to be different than what it had been if it were made purely based on business, money or resources.

I mean I could be wrong, and you could give a single example of FB being motivated by ethics, and I would be wrong.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#185

Post by tripzilch »

rchaud wrote: post #136
adgineer wrote: post #48

FB ads engineer here. Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago) 2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.) Hypertargeting doesn't work. Targeting small audiences doesn'…

> there's no meaningful business value to capturing biometrics or pictures of things in your home. Also, ethics. And that'll be the company line, until there is 'business value'. FB is just investing in facial recognition technology to "help protect you from a stranger using your photo to impersonate you" [1] Regarding ethics, have their been any meaningful changes since the FTC handed down the $5bn fine for data pri…

Well, to be completely fair to anyone who isn't a criminal, ethics usually means changing your behaviour before you get slapped by the law over it ...

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#186

Post by tripzilch »

fhood wrote: post #51
adgineer wrote: post #48

FB ads engineer here. Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago) 2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.) Hypertargeting doesn't work. Targeting small audiences doesn'…

Is there a name for this phenomena? Where we know that everybody blunders around like a caveman at our workplaces but assume infinite sophistication for everyone elses.

well there's this great quote from the movie "Cube" (1997):

There is no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge. It's a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a master plan.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#187

Post by krapp »

tripzilch wrote: post #186
fhood wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a name for this phenomena? Where we know that everybody blunders around like a caveman at our workplaces but assume infinite sophistication for everyone elses.

well there's this great quote from the movie "Cube" (1997): There is no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge. It's a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a master plan.

And a greater one by Alan Moore:

“The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.

The truth is far more frightening - Nobody is in control.

The world is rudderless.”

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#188

Post by tripzilch »

jammygit wrote: post #156
throwaway77384 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to chime in and say kudos for speaking up. That sure is a risky thing to do. Unless, of course, this is just more smoke and mirrors. I like to believe it is not.

It isn’t smoke and mirrors, it might just be idealism or trolling.

Now that you mention it, it would be a magnificent troll, new account, top comment, huge thread of replies. But it could very well not be.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#189

Post by tripzilch »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #137
troquerre wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spoken with people who have worked on the FB ads team, and having heard stories of how extensive FB's tracking is, this post seems disingenuous and personally I wouldn't be surprised if the account is sponsored by FB.

Please don’t suggest people are astroturfing here. It’s against the site guidelines.

It could also be plain trolling.

New accounts are coloured green for a reason.

Re: If Logged into Facebook, Oculus VR Data Will Now Be Used for Ads

#190

Post by tripzilch »

patrickaljord wrote: post #38
CelestialTeapot wrote: post #35

Sure, after spending hundreds of dollars on a device, it only seems fair that the vendor exploit your personal information so that credit companies and anyone willing and able to buy the data can compile a dossier on you.

Facebook does not sell data.

And when you buy a Photoshop subscription, Adobe doesn't technically sell you software, either.
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