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How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

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Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#181

Post by afiori »

iudqnolq wrote: post #89
eyeundersand wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be just me but I don't get why people on here tend to be critical about DDG's usability. I made the switch a year and a half back and I seriously don't miss anything. There are some niche cases where it doesn't work, you can just use the bangs in those cases. The trade-off, like you said, is well worth it. (Upon typing this, I realize I'm just echoing your comment. Either way, leaving this up to provide one…

DDG is essentially Bing made more private, with a little Yandex. I use it, because I like the privacy, but I don't think they deserve the credit for search result quality.

This is a very important fact that I feel comfortable to ignore.

One thing that I keep in mind is that Bing is not blocking DDG searches like google would, I find this commendable and, morally, a point in their favor.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#182

Post by ctingom »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #127
ctingom wrote: post #109

Also, Bing is really good! I'm the only guy in the company that uses it, but seriously I love it!

Bing also uses AMP. That might be why you love it.

Interesting. Maybe it is, but wouldn't I be able to see that in the url?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#183

Post by darkwater »

nkw wrote: post #163
elbrian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw many flaws and bugs. Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?

So I'm not the above poster, but for me the one that killed my workflow was this still-open, 17-year-old bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195361

And how on Earth is that a deal breaker? Selecting text from disabled fields?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#184

Post by iudqnolq »

afiori wrote: post #181
iudqnolq wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DDG is essentially Bing made more private, with a little Yandex. I use it, because I like the privacy, but I don't think they deserve the credit for search result quality.

This is a very important fact that I feel comfortable to ignore. One thing that I keep in mind is that Bing is not blocking DDG searches like google would, I find this commendable and, morally, a point in their favor.

I don't think it's relevant to answering the question "Should I use DDG". I do think it's relevant to know DDG doesn't provide diversity in search results.

I'm pretty sure DuckDuckGo has a contract with Bing.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#185

Post by detaro »

noelsusman wrote: post #180
justinph wrote: post #16

I agree with all of this, but until google provides a way to appear in the discover box without having AMP-published pages, this is a non-starter for publishers. Ironically, by creating AMP, google has disincentivized publishers from making their canonical pages faster. Publishers hate that google holds them hostage with AMP in this manner, but the situation is what it is, until someone from the Justice Department st…

>Ironically, by creating AMP, google has disincentivized publishers from making their canonical pages faster. In theory, maybe, but I think history has clearly demonstrated that publishers will not make their pages faster if AMP didn't exist. That's why AMP has been so successful in the first place.

It would have been interesting if Google had openly added the same incentive (access to carousel at top of search results, search prioritization, special marker (lightning symbol)) to pages that follow the same guidelines AMP enforces (generally, avoid techniques that block page rendering or cause large layout changes), and published AMP as a reference implementation.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#186

Post by afiori »

tomerico wrote: post #167
elbrian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw many flaws and bugs. Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?

Not OP, but here are a few simple ones I encountered that swayed me back the chrome: 1. When switching tabs (ctrl + tab), instead of simply moving there, it showed a menu. This means I need to use that tiny menu to decipher which tab I’m on, instead of the entire background. 2. When closing a full screen video playback using ctrl + w, it takes a few seconds of a black screen on Firefox vs instantaneous on chrome 3. W…

> 1. When switching tabs (ctrl + tab), instead of simply moving there, it showed a menu. This means I need to use that tiny menu to decipher which tab I’m on, instead of the entire background.

Now this is wonderful in my opinion because it can be configured to cycle in the order in which you visited the tab last. I currently have over 100 tabs open and it helps immensely.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#187

Post by wizzwizz4 »

tomerico wrote: post #167
elbrian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw many flaws and bugs. Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?

Not OP, but here are a few simple ones I encountered that swayed me back the chrome: 1. When switching tabs (ctrl + tab), instead of simply moving there, it showed a menu. This means I need to use that tiny menu to decipher which tab I’m on, instead of the entire background. 2. When closing a full screen video playback using ctrl + w, it takes a few seconds of a black screen on Firefox vs instantaneous on chrome 3. W…

I only have the third issue, but I don't consider it an issue. Plus, Firefox is faster and leaner than Chrome.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#188

Post by buboard »

mrtksn wrote: post #131
buboard wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from USERS PERSPECTIVE, amp is meh. yes it's faster, does it really matter if you re getting an article in 1 second when you -obviously- plan to spend 2 minutes reading it? i dont know anyone who thinks so, perhaps your USERS do > A strealined conent delivery platform prioritizing UX that the publishers failed to create what you re implying is, Google failed to improve their algorithms to bypass obvious SEOs, so they…

Actually, it's a pretty well-known fact that users leave websites if they are not loading fast. People don't go with reading plans to websites, the titles are optimized to bring you there and you don't know what's in the article. More often than not, the text on the website is not what the title made you believe it is. You can't plan ahead, you want to quickly find out what is this all about. The article themselves a…

> users leave websites if they are not loading fast

then google is doing a bad job of presenting these sites to users, since obviously these sites should lose their rank, since users leave them. Google surely thinks bounce rates are important, no?

> The article themselves are usually garbage optimized for SEO, long paragraphs of sentences

and how is AMP fixing this? and who is responsible for SEO having these incentives? SEO literally means they optimize for what google wants

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#189

Post by kodablah »

idoubtit wrote: post #125
brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. While I use FF, partly for moral reasons, my experience is average and I saw many flaws and bugs. I prefer the features of Vivaldi, which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google. > STOP USING google SEARCH! While my default search engine is Duck Duck Go, I don't recommend it to friends a…

> which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google

Same deal with the browser I use. My preferred UI + Chromium is better for me than FF. There are three common cross-platform browser approaches: Chrome, FF, and Chromium-based. Only one of those three offers extreme visual and feature flexibility. I sound like a broken record saying it, but FF should really invest in embeddability so we can take their engine and run.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#190

Post by olyjohn »

Karunamon wrote: post #95
Scarbutt wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but Mozilla is lazy, badly managed and dumb. They were too late on mobile, and if it weren't for Chrome, Firefox today would need 64GB of RAM to run.

I’ve seen Firefox north of 20gb on my 32gb desktop more than once, and tab crashes are a daily annoyance. Worse, it doesn’t seem appreciably faster on machines with less memory. I wish there was some config flag I could set that would put it on a diet...

You might want to look into using the bookmarks feature.
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