MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area • Hacker News Board

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#181

Post by Mountain_Skies » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #169

marcinzm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why I said time consuming. Since time is finite you also can't simply discount it versus spending money and consider it a net savings.

It's a massive net savings for most people because the opportunity cost of free time is very low. Very few people are forgoing income by spending their free time on home improvement versus other things. You're making the same error about opportunity cost as the classic "it's not worth Bill Gates' time to pick up a $100 bill" fallacy.

Plus if you're a knowledge worker it can help to engage in physical activities and even mental ones that exercise your mind in different ways than your job does. Seymour Cray famously used dig under his backyard when he was stuck on design problems for his supercomputers. He claimed elves from the nearby forest (the destination of the tunnel he was digging) came into his study and solved his problems while he was out digging the tunnel. He considered the digging to be an essential part of his design process.

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#182

Post by ok_coo » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

bluesquared wrote: post #180

nkrisc wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, I grew up there. Who needs the sea when you can't see the other side of the lake and it doesn't stink like the ocean?

Live there now, a block from Lake Erie. It's cool for 3 summer months, the other 9 months I might as well be in flyoverland cornfields...

I agree that it can be harsh. At the same time, I enjoy having the different seasons. Although this year it didn't feel like we had Fall.

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#183

Post by justaguyhere » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #77

beauzero wrote: post #41

Atlanta for $ to cost of living/quality. Rural Alabama like Sylacauga (metro/eletric company fiber to your home) for "work from home". Both my wife and I work from home in rural Georgia (Carrollton)...$300k bought us 25 acres, a refurbished 2500 square feet farm house, 6 stall horse barn, 1/2 acre pond, and shop with concrete floor and electricity. There are options out there, lots of them.

My dad's side of the family is in Georgia. You couldn't pay me $300k to deal with the racism in rural Georgia. Yes not all people out there are bad, but there's enough I'd rather line elsewhere.

I'm an immigrant and I am not white. I've only lived in big cities (NYC) and a handful of smaller, but progressive cities. I'd never be able to buy even a one bedroom apartment in a place like NYC - would love to move to a rural place, with less traffic/noise/pollution etc.

These kinds of comments scare me off...

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#184

Post by madcaptenor » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #53

asdfman123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another option is you can just find a job in Dallas or Atlanta or something. There's enough programming jobs in cities like that, the COL is relatively low, you can live in pretty much any part of town that suits your fancy, and they're probably much nicer to live in than you might imagine if you've never left the coasts. Personally if I were looking to move anywhere after leaving the bay I'd consider Raleigh or Nash…

I think it depends on each person. I briefly lived in Dallas, it's just way too ... flat? No sea, no mountains, no thanks :)

I live in Atlanta and have to go to Dallas for work every so often. Compared to Atlanta, it's too flat and has no trees.

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#185

Post by Gorath » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #40

It's really hard to beat living and working in San Francisco. Having lived here a few years I find costs highly overstated for single people . e.g. some costs: Studio in Lower Haight (water + trash included): $2100/month Utilities: $50 Monthly Muni: $81 Groceries are no more expensive than anywhere else. Eating out is similar vs other cities I've been to, and if anything the quality of the food is better here at the…

I feel like only someone from SF would find $2100 reasonable for a studio. To me that seems ludicrous in other cities. IME in Seattle, that's how much it would cost for a 2 BR apartment.

Additionally: 2100 * 12 = $25200. The general rule of thumb is don't spend more than 30% of your take home on housing. That means you need to make at _least_ $84000 dollars per year in take home. That hardly seems overstated. Would love to be proven wrong since I love the SF area and would love to live there. However, I cannot justify the costs because I do not make $84000 in take home.

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#186

Post by foogazi » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

theflyinghorse wrote: post #152

pm90 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat relate to your view as a non-white POC. However, I don't think > they'll eventually lose the power they had. would do much to change the situation. Georgia, Virginia and Texas are states that are being fundamentally changed because of the influx of progressives from both rural areas and urban coasts. The fastest way to change seems to be to move to these places and use the democratic process to introduce r…

> Georgia, Virginia and Texas are states that are being fundamentally changed because of the influx of progressives from both rural areas and urban coasts. Why are progressives moving en mass so much that that are able to replace the local population and fundamentally alter voting patterns? What is happening to drive people out like that? I'm not an American for the record and likely am missing parts of the context h…

They don’t have to replace everyone, just tip the scales enough

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#187

Post by lwhalen » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

TomVDB wrote: post #170

_mentioned wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"often aren't mentioned"? Nothing could be further from the truth. Literally 100% of the time that anywhere in the US outside of the major tech cities gets brought up, the comments are full of people claiming that the inhabitants of those areas are racist, stupid, dangerous, unwelcoming, or otherwise bad and undesirable to be near. The double-standards on this website are mind boggling, for how casually and openly pe…

If 25% of the population of a town were rapists, would you agree with the characterization that that town is full of rapists and to stay away from there? In my daily sheltered life in the Bay Area, I hardly ever see overt racism. And when it happens, it bothers me. If I’d see it happen on a daily basis, it would seriously impact my quality of life. I see nothing wrong with saying: don’t move to this or that place bec…

You're making a (large, most likely incorrect) assumption that 25% of a given town is made up of ra(p|c)ists. I suspect if you got down to it, you'd find it's most like 1% or less in the 'bad' areas, and the major difference of the makeup between 'rural' and 'coastal-urban' is that 1% in the rural area is incredibly vocal. See 'the three Cooters theory of Internet Discourse' https://monsterhunternation.com/2019/07/16/the-three-cooters...

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#188

Post by tropo » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 11:06 PM UTC

theflyinghorse wrote: post #152

pm90 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat relate to your view as a non-white POC. However, I don't think > they'll eventually lose the power they had. would do much to change the situation. Georgia, Virginia and Texas are states that are being fundamentally changed because of the influx of progressives from both rural areas and urban coasts. The fastest way to change seems to be to move to these places and use the democratic process to introduce r…

> Georgia, Virginia and Texas are states that are being fundamentally changed because of the influx of progressives from both rural areas and urban coasts. Why are progressives moving en mass so much that that are able to replace the local population and fundamentally alter voting patterns? What is happening to drive people out like that? I'm not an American for the record and likely am missing parts of the context h…

They made their own states too expensive, by choice, and then couldn't live with the result.

They are moving to affordable places that vote against taxes, regulations, and government services. Oddly they continue to vote for the policy that caused them to migrate, and so eventually they must migrate again.

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#189

Post by souprock » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 11:35 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #151

mdszy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having roommates is 100% worth not saving a whole ton of money to me. Fuck having roommates.

I think people in SF have normalized having roommates as adults. It's possible to find your own place, for sure, but you're going to pay at least $3500/month then for something decent unless you get a studio like me, which there are very few.

I think you may be right about normalizing roommates, which is a horrifying thought. Roommates aren't even OK in college. Past college, I can't see how it would be willingly endured. It's barely above being homeless. Being in a SRO, even the tiny cage-like ones of East Asia, would be superior.

Having a place of your own, shared only with desired family, is fundamental to being an independent adult. Ideally you should even own the land.

Re: MainStreet – $10k to Leave Bay Area

#190

Post by souprock » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 11:47 PM UTC

0xffff2 wrote: post #119

danielschonfeld wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking true, but what happens when you deduct state taxes, in a place like either California or New York. Suddenly the budget seems just about right and nothing too extravagant to write home about

What happens is you still come out way ahead. I'd dearly love to get out of the bay area, but even as a relatively low paid government contractor it's very hard to find an interesting job elsewhere that leaves more money in my pocket.

You may come out way ahead if non-local expenses are a large portion of your budget. Everybody else loses.

I'm out of the bay area, at a government contractor, with an interesting job. I can afford a huge family, currently with 14 people in the household supported on one income. Life is just easier where the houses are affordable.

I don't know what you'd consider an interesting job or what you'd qualify for, but how seriously have you looked? People can have a bias that stops them: if you allow that the interesting jobs exist, then you have to seriously consider them and ultimately act by moving, but that is a lot to think about and a lot of bother, so therefore there aren't any interesting jobs elsewhere.