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Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

bugs.chromium.org

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Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#181

Post by hvis »

lultimouomo wrote: post #134
hvis wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then again I didn't hear someone from Google saying ... Is that a good thing?

I mean, Google doesn't even pretend to be open to community contributions. Pretty much every choice they make is tailored to googlers only, just look at their build systems. They're upfront about it which I think prevents me from complaining about how hard is to contribute. I'll take Mozilla over Google every day, but if Mozilla presents itself as open to community, it also lends itself to criticism that Google avoid…

It's actually documented that Firefox does have outside contributors, even people writing code: https://blog.mozilla.org/community/2019/04/30/firefox-67-new...

So yes, that happens, and if that's not as easy as we could have hoped, probably help is welcome with that as well.

Big and complex projects generally have higher standard of effort necessary to get the leg in. The comparison to Chrome was that it's a project comparable in complexity, and yet Firefox is easier and faster to build.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#182

Post by mrieck »

Waterluvian wrote: post #11

I've been dealing with a massive performance regression in the canvas API. The frustrating bit is that they were well aware of the cost and made the change anyways. They didn't seem to stop and consider what effect it might have on major libraries and applications. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=100184...

I didn't notice performance hit on my project that uses a ton of canvas ops:

https://www.superanimo.com/editor

Chrome 77 did waste 1 day of work for me though, I filed a bug report related to drawImage canvas-to-canvas on large files and they merged a fix for my issue pretty fast:

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=101170...

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#183

Post by robocat »

hvis wrote: post #121
lultimouomo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found contributing to the linux kernel a significantly more pleasant experience than contributing to Firefox. I have no trouble believing that contributing to Chrome is even harder, but then again I didn't hear someone from Google saying "If you think a bug is easy to fix, pleasez consider providing a patch."

> then again I didn't hear someone from Google saying ... Is that a good thing?

Yes.

I've submitted many browser bug reports to Google, Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla over many years. I only bother to submit issues for "important" bugs, I write clearly, I simplify, and I spend significant time ensuring that the bug report is useful to developers and relevant for users.

Google respects my efforts, and often fixes my reported issues, or at least explains why it can't be fixed (usually with well reasoned answers, usually the actual developer is communicating with me).

Microsoft/Apple/Mozilla waste my time, ignore my efforts, and generally that results in a poorer user experience in the browser.

The Chrome team is one of the most amazing software teams I have ever been tangentially involved with - and the product quality shines.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#184

Post by stekern »

dmix wrote: post #8
sbr464 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on drag & drop a lot, especially right now. It's interesting how complicated overall, and how many different (code) solutions there are to the general drag & drop UX problem. I was consolidating ideas/notes from older notebooks a few mornings ago, I couldn't help thinking how it feels like reimplementing human evolution in a different/abstract medium.

Agreed, it's a much harder problem to get right than it looks on the surface "sure I can add drag & drop easily!". Like a lot of things in software...

Yeah, I can attest to this. It sounds easy at first, but suddenly you need to handle items inside virtual lists (e.g., react-window), scrolling, data updating while dragging, ...

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#185

Post by hvis »

robocat wrote: post #183
hvis wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then again I didn't hear someone from Google saying ... Is that a good thing?

Yes. I've submitted many browser bug reports to Google, Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla over many years. I only bother to submit issues for "important" bugs, I write clearly, I simplify, and I spend significant time ensuring that the bug report is useful to developers and relevant for users. Google respects my efforts, and often fixes my reported issues, or at least explains why it can't be fixed (usually with well reas…

Thank you for outlining this.

Maybe someone from Mozilla's community outreach can comment and ultimately make some improvements.

Specific examples of said bug reports would probably help, though.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#186

Post by pearjuice »

shadowgovt wrote: post #166
asdf12346 wrote: post #86

How is that even possible that bugs like that made it to production? They do not write tests or something?

The combinatorics of browser features described by the standards are not unit-testable in the scale of human lifetimes. That having been said, if they didn't have a test for this situation before, I assume they do now. ;)

The combinatorics were written in code in a human lifetime so there should have been tests for it.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#187

Post by egeozcan »

techntoke wrote: post #156
egeozcan wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree: Try to explain your users that they won't get drag and drop for 21 days. This would have been worse if there weren't passionate people aggressively following it. A Google account integration issue would always be more important than web pages being broken in many subtle ways. This wasn't the case when they didn't hold the browser monopoly.

Try to explain to your users why all their add-ons were disabled because you forgot to renew a certificate.

Messing up and immediately reacting is totally something else than ignoring your users.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#188

Post by eitland »

magicalist wrote: post #175
eitland wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abuse of dominant market position in one market (search) to push into other markets (browsers).

Skype is a Microsoft product, though?

Sorry, I thought it was about hangouts or something.

Embarrassing, sorry, and thanks for pointing it out.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#189

Post by shadowgovt »

pearjuice wrote: post #186
shadowgovt wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The combinatorics of browser features described by the standards are not unit-testable in the scale of human lifetimes. That having been said, if they didn't have a test for this situation before, I assume they do now. ;)

The combinatorics were written in code in a human lifetime so there should have been tests for it.

No, that's the problem. The individual items in the specification were written in a human lifetime. Full testing of the specification requires consideration of the power set of those items.

(I mistated earlier when I said unit tests. Determining if the right order of events is fired is probably a functional or integration test. And full coverage on those is the problem of covering the power set of features of a system.)

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#190

Post by robocat »

hvis wrote: post #185
robocat wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I've submitted many browser bug reports to Google, Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla over many years. I only bother to submit issues for "important" bugs, I write clearly, I simplify, and I spend significant time ensuring that the bug report is useful to developers and relevant for users. Google respects my efforts, and often fixes my reported issues, or at least explains why it can't be fixed (usually with well reas…

Thank you for outlining this. Maybe someone from Mozilla's community outreach can comment and ultimately make some improvements. Specific examples of said bug reports would probably help, though.

I suggest Mozilla look at the last 6 months of bugs submitted and do some analysis on them.

Ideally take a subsample and talk to the submitters, and see what they think.

If Mozilla agree that Google do a better job than Mozilla, then benchmark against them.

I eventually stopped reporting bugs to Mozilla, Microsoft and Apple unless I absolutely had to. I recently stopped working with browsers, so I no longer have much appetite for helping.

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