Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 319 posts

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#181

Post by oh_sigh »

emptyfile wrote: post #95
oh_sigh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this a lot but is there any basis for this? Were any of the 9/11 attackers widowed/orphaned by the US? Or were they just whipped up in religious fervor and an abstract idea of a cultural war with the US? And does it go the other way? Do you create violent anti-Islamists when Muslims commit terror attacks? Were the orphans of 9/11 more likely to sign up for the US military, or commit hate crimes against Muslims…

>Were any of the 9/11 attackers widowed/orphaned by the US? Or were they just whipped up in religious fervor and an abstract idea of a cultural war with the US? It's so sad that you don't know this. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver >Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America' >As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple: >(1) Because you attacked…

Funny how a CEOs public letter is looked at with more skepticism than OBL on here.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#182

Post by chooseaname »

gcatalfamo wrote: post #14

This is how you create terrorists. What do you think the children and friends feelings towards the US will be from now on? People get radicalized for much less than that.

> This is how you create terrorists.

Which the war machine needs in order to grow.

Which the politicians need in order to get elected (Some people want "strong" leaders, for this definition of strong).

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#183

Post by [deleted] »

whiddershins wrote: post #126
wruza wrote: post #2

Now imagine “U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in France” and feel the difference (which is non-existent). Then it goes on tv and reads the list of this morning’s evil men who must be stopped.

Now imagine “France knowingly harbors 911 terrorists.” “French leaders take credit for car bombing which kills 23 civilians.” There’s a historical reason for this discrepancy.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#184

Post by kmjg88nvf8 »

alpaca128 wrote: post #148
mieseratte wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love the US out of Afghanistan, there’s a war on over there. Yours is a disingenuous comparison.

A war where the US were totally forced to participate, of course, like always...

So do you care about the civilians, or not? It seems possible US engagement saves more civilians than it kills. At least that is presumably the general idea.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#185

Post by fit2rule »

emptyfile wrote: post #95
oh_sigh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this a lot but is there any basis for this? Were any of the 9/11 attackers widowed/orphaned by the US? Or were they just whipped up in religious fervor and an abstract idea of a cultural war with the US? And does it go the other way? Do you create violent anti-Islamists when Muslims commit terror attacks? Were the orphans of 9/11 more likely to sign up for the US military, or commit hate crimes against Muslims…

>Were any of the 9/11 attackers widowed/orphaned by the US? Or were they just whipped up in religious fervor and an abstract idea of a cultural war with the US? It's so sad that you don't know this. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver >Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America' >As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple: >(1) Because you attacked…

Cannot upvote this enough. Folks just don't want to know the truth: Asymmetric war just guarantees more war.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#186

Post by klagermkii »

misja wrote: post #146
lopmotr wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think terrorism is killing random members of a population to scare the others into some political or ideological change. It wouldn't count if it was targeted at fighters and civilians got killed by accident.

That sounds like a reasonable definition. But how would this definition qualify the Taliban attacks on military bases and police stations in Afghanistan?

I think one would need to put something like that as a guerrilla war.

There needs to be a distinction between:

* attacking civilians (terrorism)

* attacking The System, but going for softer targets and not taking its military might directly head on (guerilla war)

* attacking The System, in a Military v Military setting (regular warfare)

While there are groups that will never have the direct strength to take a head on fight, I think it's beneficial to have a category showing that they limit their targets to agents of the system rather than any random civilian.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#187

Post by kmjg88nvf8 »

lawn wrote: post #171
mieseratte wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love the US out of Afghanistan, there’s a war on over there. Yours is a disingenuous comparison.

Which in reality should be the real crime. To start a war killing countless of innocent people... for what?

So how did war in Afghanistan start? Taliban apparently came to power via war a couple of years before US engagement.

Suppose that was a crime. Who punishes the criminals? Maybe that is exactly what the US sees itself doing?

Unfortunately to punish war criminals, usually you have to win against them in a war.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#188

Post by throwaway66920 »

cies wrote: post #70
dominicr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or imagine "Taleban drone strike kills 30 farmers in Oklahoma". There would be a reaction!

Or Yemenis kill 30 Saudi date farm workers in Saud. Or, God forbid, Iran kills 30 Saudis in Saud. We've been exposed to so much propaganda that we instinctively know what is "worse", and who is "allowed" to kill without due process.

I think you’re conflating morally worse with practically worse. It’s not propaganda to note that certain countries attacking each other spell out graver consequences

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#189

Post by trymas »

igravious wrote: post #162
zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #154

Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. The drone didn’t make a decision and target the workers, the drone pilot targeted the workers, and whomever was standing behind them gave the order to launch the missle. The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

Imagine being the person (even if you had little personal autonomy in the matter) who pulled the trigger or pressed the button. Imagine finding out what you had done. Would it break you?

Someone should correct me if I am wrong, but military training is mostly about obeying orders and desensitizing about what's going on the receiving end of your actions.

I have watched Restrepo on Netflix and found one thing interesting, that biggest thing soldiers have missed in their civilian lives is the adrenaline/joy rush of a shoot-out, no matter how dangerous it is. Paradoxically most of the interviewees are clearly suffering from some levels of PTSD, because probably you cannot be trained for when you see your friend's body/face to be blown apart.

It would be interesting to hear from someone in the military or someone with military psychology training knowledge, how this works. Seems that soldiers are fine with killing "the enemy", but seeing death of your friends gives you (understandably) PTSD.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#190

Post by amaranth »

JCharante wrote: post #179
TeMPOraL wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work even in the movies. Last American movie I watched which featured a drone strike against civilians, involved an advanced AI that recommended not to proceed because of insufficient information, that got overruled by the president. The drone strike hit a wedding, which led to increase in attack on Americans, making the AI attempt to kill the president and most of the US government, following the "protect…

Which movie was that?

Sounds like Eagle Eye, movie didn't do well but I thought it was a fun watch at least.
Post reply on HN