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Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

examine.com

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Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#181

Post by AhmedF »

1123581321 wrote: post #175
piva00 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how you go by applying this reasoning to this very website where you are commenting? Hacker News would never be, for me personally, on the top of the list of websites that inspire confidence by its looks, it's only when you delve into it and realise the content is actually great that you can appreciate it. Such a shallow evaluation is quite strange coming from technical people who are used to mailing lists and all…

I don’t know how Google evaluates link aggregators. My comment was based on how Google evaluates content sites right now. I’m not saying it’s fair to Examine.com’s researchers and writers, as most of the replies to my comment appear to assume. I should have made that more clear.

They actually have published guidelines, and we meet them 100%.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#182

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Edit: I since looked at the MSG page linked as there first example in the OP, which was exactly what I expected based on the "for" comments. My original comment below:

---

Well I read a few comments here saying it was click-baity and such, and other comments pushing back hard against that saying it's a detailed, trustworthy, researched site with citations.

So, I visited via an "about" link, then clicked through the menu to supplements (arbitrarily) then randomly to "creatine": lots of links in the claim-heavy content, but the two links I followed were to definitions, not to proof of the claims being made.

At the head it gives a researchers name, says their work was reviewed. Looks great so far.

>"Our evidence-based analysis on creatine features 746 unique references to scientific papers. " //

Wow, I'm expecting a massive citation section.

But, nothing, it's just a sales page, it doesn't _have_ citation supported information but it tells me it sells such information ...

Am I missing something, people Googling "creatine" are looking for the info, not a sales page offering to hook them up to the info. If other sources have the info directly then that would be a huge reason that Google wouldn't rank this examine.com site highly?

How many people google something looking for a for-pay resource that they, it seems, can't even sample first?

I'm not googling looking for a site to sign-up with to get emailed a factsheet either, even if it's free (which is a common fraud that I'm hugely wary of).

Ok, so now I'm looking at the questions, cool, click through - something about caffeine interactions with creatine, surely the link is to the cited scientific paper, nope just to another uncited page by the same person.

I'm not impressed upon that this is a site that should be high in google rankings; it seems low value unless you're looking to sign up to a resource -- like if I search online for "Steven King novels" I actually want the list, not a link to a library I can sign up to in order to find out at some time in the future some of the novels that could be on that list.

FWIW the summary given was good, readable, seemed like it might be true, but there's no reason to trust it at all. I'd rank it below even Wikipedia for the content I was presented. Whatever content they're selling behind those pages could be incredibly good, but that's not what SERPs are linking to so of course they don't rank for that, they rank for the shallow sales page with the same generic info on a million other pages.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#183

Post by data_required »

Semiapies wrote: post #172
data_required wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not do some research yourself? What do you think are some other contenders for best websites to see compiled research on individual supplements (especially unusual supplements)? And once you've done this research, will you still believe that Examine's pages rarely deserve to be in the top 10 results on relevant search queries? It's easy to compare something to abstract perfection, and find it wanting. But if you…

It's the claim of you and others here that this is "the" best site on the topic online. It's up to you to back that claim up, not for other people to run around to get evidence to disprove it.

Why are skeptics like you usually so freaking lazy?

If Examine wasn't great, it should be quite easy for you to find literally just one source that was consistently and objectively better.

The task of the skeptic is quite a lot easier. For the the fan, it's a lot harder- a fan like me would have to literally track down EVERY single alternative and show it was not as good as the thing we admire.

All you have to do, as a skeptic, is find a single better source. Much easier to do.

But I'm willing to do some of your work for you.

Here is a list of the websites which usually rank above Examine:

WebMD (which openly partners with pharmaceutical companies)

Healthline (originally launched in 1999, it owns Drugs.com, Livestrong, Greatist, MedicalNewsToday)

VerywellHealth (partners with the Cleveland Clinic, started as an About.com company)

Hospital websites (such as UMMC, the Cleveland Clinic, the Mayo Clinic, Sloan-Kettering, NYU, etc.)

Governmental institutions (NIH/Pubmed, CDC, ODS, FDA, etc.)

Other medical news sites (which are almost always owned by WebMD or Healthline)

Is any single one of those more credible and neutral than Examine, typically? Are their sources as comprehensive, and do they summarize things as cleanly and neutrally?

Does any one of them even have better moral incentives? Examine only makes money from selling informational guides, apparently. That sounds the best to me.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#184

Post by pbhjpbhj »

AhmedF wrote: post #180
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re 3. providing a bio and referencing their other work is a good start; as is linking to trusted sources, LinkedIn, the person's Uni or business resumé page, a "verified" Twitter account might work; if they're of note they may have a Wikipedia page ...

Good idea! Here's Kamal's thorough bio page: https://examine.com/user/kamalpatel/ Here's Kamal verified on twitter: https://twitter.com/zenkamal Here's him on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Patel_(researcher) Here's Examine.com on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examine.com

Just FYI I was addressing the question. You're being a bit salty. You should have asked "what else other than x, y , z" if you already had a good answer.

Aside: the Creatine page links to https://examine.com/about/#researchers which is below where Kamal Patel appears on that page, so I scanned down the page and he wasn't mentioned (he's at the top, but I had to search to find him).

That page is long, and linking to generic prose about researchers from a named link made me think there was no information on that person.

That could be a one-off error, of course.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#185

Post by AhmedF »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #182

Edit: I since looked at the MSG page linked as there first example in the OP, which was exactly what I expected based on the "for" comments. My original comment below: --- Well I read a few comments here saying it was click-baity and such, and other comments pushing back hard against that saying it's a detailed, trustworthy, researched site with citations. So, I visited via an "about" link, then clicked through the m…

Uhh - what?

https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/ - just scroll down.

https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/#effect-matrix - that's not selling anything.

https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/#scientific-researc... - click on 'fully expand' - there's all your science + citations.

And the references themselves have carrots next to each reference so you can click and see what is being referenced...

Here is an example of what IS being sold: https://a99d9b858c7df59c454c-96c6baa7fa2a34c80f17051de799bc8...

And that creatine caffeine page... https://examine.com/nutrition/does-caffeine-counteract-creat... - literally has 7 references right at the bottom. Again, with carrots to see where the claim is.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#186

Post by 1123581321 »

AhmedF wrote: post #181
1123581321 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how Google evaluates link aggregators. My comment was based on how Google evaluates content sites right now. I’m not saying it’s fair to Examine.com’s researchers and writers, as most of the replies to my comment appear to assume. I should have made that more clear.

They actually have published guidelines, and we meet them 100%.

Indeed. I sincerely hope they improve the situation. A favorite site of mine, Metafilter, went through something similar a few years ago. Google cracked down on user-generated content too broadly, similar to here, and they have had a tough time recovering despite their care to follow the guidelines. It’s frustrating to see it happen again.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#187

Post by kragen »

sachdevap wrote: post #94
tallanvor wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've come across the site before, but at first glance it doesn't look reputable at all. --I realize that looks aren't everything, but I see the following that look like red flags to me: 1. They show logs for news sources such as The New York Times, BBC, etc., but they don't actually link to those sites, let alone to articles that actually mention this site. 2. I see click-bait titles like "The top 19 nu…

> 2. I see click-bait titles like "The top 19 nutrition myths of 2019". It's 2019. EVERYONE does this to get attention from people. > 3. Reviews by "professionals" that I can't easily verify. "Mike Hart, MD" is an example. Who is he? How do I know he's a real person? If he is a real person and a real doctor, how do I know he actually recommended this site? They actually cite sources. You really need to look at partic…

> It's 2019. EVERYONE does this to get attention from people.

I don't. Nobody I respect does. None of the scientific papers they cite do. Nobody in my friends list on Fecebutt does. Nobody I follow on Twitter does, to my knowledge. Slatestarcodex doesn't. HN doesn't. Wikipedia doesn't. Library Genesis doesn't. The Pirate Bay doesn't. JSTOR doesn't. Sam Zeloof doesn't. Ken Shirriff doesn't. The only sites I've visited in the last couple of days that pull that kind of bullshit are the Daily Beast, Vice, and Bloomberg, neither of which is to the trustworthiness standards of the sites and people listed above, and examine.com.

It seems that you have imprisoned yourself in a sort of filter bubble of dishonest hustlers. You might want to rethink your life decisions.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#188

Post by bageldaughter »

The core problem with examine, in my opinion, is that it embraces the attitudes that:

1. A wide range of subtle personal, emotional and health problems can in principle be solved/mitigated by taking supplements and unregulated drugs.

2. Positive effects from small-group trials are akin to mild recommendations to take a supplement, rather than to attempt to reproduce the effect in a larger trial.

The very premises upon which people base their visits to examine and other sites is flawed. Examine has zero incentive to address or repudiate them.

The success of their business is dependent on there being a perceived efficacy for supplements and unregulated drugs, and the idea that reading online about more varied and obscure supplements will eventually find you the one that fixes your problem. But for a lot of perceived problems, there will simply be no supplement-based solution.

Re: Why has examine.com disappeared from search results?

#189

Post by data_required »

Semiapies wrote: post #172
data_required wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not do some research yourself? What do you think are some other contenders for best websites to see compiled research on individual supplements (especially unusual supplements)? And once you've done this research, will you still believe that Examine's pages rarely deserve to be in the top 10 results on relevant search queries? It's easy to compare something to abstract perfection, and find it wanting. But if you…

It's the claim of you and others here that this is "the" best site on the topic online. It's up to you to back that claim up, not for other people to run around to get evidence to disprove it.

Also, it would be good to get back to the main topic of the blog post. Even if Examine is normally only 10th best, they should be appearing on Google's first page of web results.

I do happen to think that Examine is the best (usually). But even if you disagreed, probably if you did a thorough bit of research comparing them to alternatives in this important search space, you would agree that they are better than most of what is ranking ahead of them.

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