Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#181

Post by EnderMB » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

andrew_ wrote: post #103

EnderMB wrote: post #95

I'd be interested in MBP sales figures from the batch of MacBooks with the new keyboard/touch bar. From my perspective, despite a whole host of issues, very few people seem to have actually moved away from Mac's. I hear a lot of grumbling, but you only need to look at this thread to see people claim that the MBP is the best professional-grade laptop available today, when the issues with the OS, the keyboard, and the…

I stick with it because, in only my very subjective and personal view, there's no other OS available that is as streamlined as Mac OS. I try all modern offerings just about once a year, and have yet to find anything better for myself. It's their one saving grace in my view.

Would you say that this is because the alternatives aren't as good, or because your workflow is tied towards using Mac?

In my case, I think it's definitely the latter. For Ruby dev I could switch to Debian tomorrow and probably be fine, especially since most of the stuff I work on from day to day uses Docker. That won't stop my workplace from buying MBP's, though..

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#182

Post by Octoth0rpe » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

mxcrossb wrote: post #171

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were there. Have you ever spoken to a thinkpad advocate re: chiclet keyboards? The previous mac keyboards were absolutely controversial. It took years for the previous keyboard to be 'just a keyboard', which I do acknowledge happened. > I look forward to a return to a non controversial, highly usable and widely accepted as "fine", keyboard. Honestly…

Most of the technology works just hates any sort of change. Apple’s core base is different, they embrace change regardless of its utility. So that makes it hard to evaluate this kind of tech online. I’m also noticing that the article suggests that apple’s real reason for change is poor yield and reliability. Those are objective measures, so I think we can agree that the current keyboard is bad.

> Apple’s core base is different, they embrace change regardless of its utility.

I really don't know how one can come to this conclusion. Apple people bitch about _everything_ that changes. I think the one and only exception might be any time that they added retina screens to something.

Source: I am an apple user.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#183

Post by Fnoord » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

WAHa_06x36 wrote: post #175

Fnoord wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the main problem with it. * It breaks. * It makes a lot of noise. * It has almost no travel. I really dislike #2 and #3 but to their credit it is thin (which I don't care much about). You can argue about #2 and #3 being subjective which is fair enough (the same is true for it being thin). However #1 is not subjective, and doesn't occur in a "few isolated cases". It is a proven design issue. What I'd furthermo…

It may make a bit more noise than the older one, but it certainly does not make "a lot" of noise. And the short travel is also not a problem, just a personal preference. As I said, I much prefer it, as do many others.

It is a lot of noise compared to my flaretech red switches. It is a lot of noise compared to my current and previous MBPs are previous ThinkPads.

Also, I even have my TouchPad on silent (I prefer than over the You prefer it, I don't. Many others prefer it, many other's don't. Like the touchbar, it was a controversial change. But if it then turns out to break regularly, then it is better to return to the previous design.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#184

Post by kypro » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

meerita wrote: post #138

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

I've bought the non Touch Bar model after using 2 months the TB one. I have never regret this decision.

I am sat here trying to work on a computer with about 8 buttons loose and two buttons which double press.

I've had the keyboard replaced once already for exactly the same problem, but I'm a contractor and Apple can take weeks to repair the keyboard so I'm probably going to be stuck working like this for a while longer - at least until I take holiday.

It's far from acceptable for a $2,000 [pro]fessional machine.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#185

Post by ragerino » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

submeta wrote: post #4

Finally! It took four years to admit there is something wrong. And one more year to change upcoming laptops. - It‘s unbelievable how this crap could be released. Coming from a ThinkPad to a MBP in 2015 I was even disappointed by the keyboard of the MBP 2015. Then switching to a MBP 2018 I was shocked how much worse things could get (for the sake of thinness?)

I love my Carbon X1, especially because of it's excellent keyboard. Unfortunatly the same can not be said about it's touchpad which causes constantly accidental clicks while typing.

A combination of Lenovo's keyboard and Apple's touchpad would make a strong combination.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#186

Post by DrScientist » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

joeframbach wrote: post #160

DrScientist wrote: post #155

Yeah! I really don't like the current keyboards. Also while your at it - produce a proper Pro laptop! Worry less about the thinness and - add better thermal control - more memory - more storage. - extra port or too so less requirements for dongles. - option for matt rather than shiny displays - old style trackpads with physical click - the new ones give me cognitive dissonance In terms of touch bar - it's mixed. I re…

Sounds like you want a hackintosh thinkpad

Except I want the Apple - it just works - part of the unified hardware/software stack.

If I want something with flaky sound/wireless drivers and sluggish graphics performance- I build my own linux thinkpad laptop :-)

I mean that - I have one - love linux, but not blind to it's problems.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#187

Post by bartq » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

I own MacBook 12 inch with 2nd gen of this keyboard from 2017 and actually like it more than on MacBook Pros that I got from a company I worked for. It seems to be a bit different, like click is smaller and is quieter. In MacBook 12 it matches whole laptop philosophy of being the thinest and lightest and even has smaller trackpad that you doesn't accidentally touch while typing.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#188

Post by aleem » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in.

For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs.

The dongles and USB-C are a mess. The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade which will mean shorter battery life due to lesser plugging in. The lack of Magsafe is a downgrade, they removed a feature. The lack of any port variety which my 2013 Macbook Air did exceedingly well is a major downgrade. Consumers must carry a variety of dongles because the laptops don't offer a variety of ports.

Profits are fine as long as they don't lead to perverse behavior. Apple needs to stop playing these fucking games and ship some pragmatism.

The Apple of Cook is reminiscent of the Microsoft of Ballmer. He is totally out of touch with the product -- the very thing that Jobs inculcated.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#189

Post by EnderMB » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

kevinmchugh wrote: post #104

EnderMB wrote: post #95

I'd be interested in MBP sales figures from the batch of MacBooks with the new keyboard/touch bar. From my perspective, despite a whole host of issues, very few people seem to have actually moved away from Mac's. I hear a lot of grumbling, but you only need to look at this thread to see people claim that the MBP is the best professional-grade laptop available today, when the issues with the OS, the keyboard, and the…

There's been room in the budget for me to upgrade my work MBP for about 6 months. I haven't considered it. I've got the old keyboard and I've seen what my coworkers have to deal with. I've also convinced my wife to wait on replacing her decade-old MacBook.

Hmm, that's probably also a big part of it. A good professional-grade laptop can last for years. I've had my 1st gen Surface Book for about three years now and it's as fast as the day I bought it. Unless something breaks, I have zero reason to upgrade to anything different.

I'm in the same boat as you at work. I've got an older MBP, and despite a dent in the screen and some trackpad issues I would rather stay with this model than upgrade to a newer, inferior one.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#190

Post by DrScientist » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #158

DrScientist wrote: post #155

Yeah! I really don't like the current keyboards. Also while your at it - produce a proper Pro laptop! Worry less about the thinness and - add better thermal control - more memory - more storage. - extra port or too so less requirements for dongles. - option for matt rather than shiny displays - old style trackpads with physical click - the new ones give me cognitive dissonance In terms of touch bar - it's mixed. I re…

> produce a proper Pro laptop! Hmm, I'm afraid they listen and produce a $15k laptop... But ok, the MacBook Air is still in the lineup.

Exactly - road warriors, who want lightness and style ( sales and senior management ) over substance can get an Air. Serious users - developers, scientists, artists - want a serious machine.