Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste • Hacker News Board

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#181

Post by dodobirdlord » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:39 AM UTC

topmonk wrote: post #103

xyzzyz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glass is literally molten sand. It will break down just like the rock breaks down. It's not toxic or hazardous, except when it's freshly shattered, but these super sharp edges weather relatively quickly, after which they aren't any sharper than natural found rock. This not to say that we should just don't care and throw away glass anywhere we want, but it's really not a huge deal, unless you hate seeing glass pebbles…

This all hinges on what you mean by “relatively fast”. If glass is being shattered and ends up being a hazard for years, this is much worse than a goopy old discarded plastic bottle, regardless of the perceived ugliness of the latter.

> this is much worse than a goopy old discarded plastic bottle

No, over time the plastic bottle will weather into cell-scale microplastic particles and play indefinite havoc with local wildlife. Glass will not.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#182

Post by taneq » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:41 AM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #102

shados wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really much of a point in recycling anything but reasonably clean paper/cardboard (I know stuff like greasy pizza boxes won't get recycled), and clean metals (like aluminum cans). Like, aside for those, will much realistically get recycled? Aside for the insane amount of amazon boxes I toss in recycling, so very little of my trash fits the bill of things that will reasonably get recycled...

Glass is another (the other?) material which is worthwhile to recycle. Like plastic, glass never decomposes. Unlike plastic and unlike paper/cardboard, it can be endlessly remelted and remade into new products without a loss in quality. It's a huge savings in material and energy cost to use recycled glass in the manufacture of new glass. If you have a recycling bin labeled "glass", absolutely do throw (place) glass b…

Everything I've read recently indicates that "recycled" glass is generally just crushed and used as road base instead of being melted down and re-used as containers etc.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#183

Post by SomeOldThrow » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:41 AM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #161

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you don’t price in environmental impact. Trains are much more efficient than ships in this regard and can be powered purely by green energy.

> Trains are much more efficient than ships in this regard Is that really true? At least for CO2 emissions, other sources seem to imply the opposite, with ships being much more efficient than trains: https://truecostblog.com/2009/11/23/is-local-really-greener-...

I'm referring to an electric train powered by green energy—an ideal, not a current reality. As far as I am aware, shipping lanes are just as difficult to green as planes are, maybe even more so.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#184

Post by spullara » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:42 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #3

As far as I can understand it, the recycling industry is a well-intentioned waste of resources. It would be much better for the environment for all this waste to be sequestered in a landfill than for people to pay to ship it around the world only for most of it to be dumped or rejected (which, even when the Asian countries in question do accept it, they are likely to do anyway). These materials (plastics) are so chea…

It seems obvious to me that we will eventually be a lot better at recycling or the materials will be worth a lot more. If you can keep it around without it polluting the environment outside of the landfill, you should dig it up later and recycle it with superior technology and/or when there is much more demand.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#185

Post by taneq » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:42 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #54

There is this strange belief that landfills are taking up a ton of space and we need to reduce landfill usage because of it. This is simply not true. Landfills don't take up much space, we have plenty.

This has always been my point of confusion. The ground's gotta be made of something. Rocks don't decompose. Why is it an issue if the ground's made of something that's not rock and doesn't decompose?

If it's leaking toxic breakdown byproducts out into the water table or something then that's an issue, sure, but "things going to landfill" seems to be treated as axiomatically bad by most people.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#186

Post by iamsb » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:59 AM UTC

Main issue with recycling is sorting. Perhaps there are ways to solve this using technology.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#187

Post by Godel_unicode » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:03 AM UTC

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #183

nkurz wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trains are much more efficient than ships in this regard Is that really true? At least for CO2 emissions, other sources seem to imply the opposite, with ships being much more efficient than trains: https://truecostblog.com/2009/11/23/is-local-really-greener-...

I'm referring to an electric train powered by green energy—an ideal, not a current reality. As far as I am aware, shipping lanes are just as difficult to green as planes are, maybe even more so.

We know how to make very large nuclear powered ships. You could fit an astonishing amount of waste on something the size of the Nimitz, especially if it didn't need to make task group speeds.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#188

Post by SomeOldThrow » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:03 AM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #187

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to an electric train powered by green energy—an ideal, not a current reality. As far as I am aware, shipping lanes are just as difficult to green as planes are, maybe even more so.

We know how to make very large nuclear powered ships. You could fit an astonishing amount of waste on something the size of the Nimitz, especially if it didn't need to make task group speeds.

Hmm, fair point.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#189

Post by Godel_unicode » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

rlpb wrote: post #132

gingabriska wrote: post #93

I just bought 5 new Prusa i3 MK3 and I print lots of ABS and PETG parts, am I contributed to the plastic problem? Over last 1 month, I ended up using roughly 25KG of plastic.

IMHO, while in the short term using a 3D printer may mean more plastic parts everywhere and therefore more waste, in the long term you're promoting a world of Just In Time part production where it is needed, and that future world will produce less waste.

You're forgetting that just in time means a much lower barrier between desire and realization. This can lead to a significant increase in overall consumption.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#190

Post by kabacha » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #18

Other than the diplomatic issue of sending it back, "Asian countries take a stand against their own recycling industries" seems more accurate. There was someone buying it on the other end.

Yeah, original title is absurd. I've never seen as much plastic waste as I see in Asia. I mean I've got called names few times for refusing plastic bag lol.