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About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

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Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#181

Post by brainpool »

taiwanboy wrote: post #126

I am proud of our democratic cousins in Hong Kong; this is just the beginning. Who knows what kind of country China will be in 2047, maybe there is hope for democratic China or 50 more years of democratic Hong Kong, who knows. As for Taiwan, Taiwanese people already identify themselves with being Taiwanese. Nearly 80% of people polled identify themselves in fact, in recent polls. Now we just need the older generation…

Sorry, but China could invade Taiwan by breakfast and be done by lunch if it was so influens. The only reason it has not happened already has very little with Taiwan to do and more with geopolitical issues and Chinas dependency on oil.

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#182

Post by hungrygs »

whoevercares wrote: post #149
taiwanboy wrote: post #126

I am proud of our democratic cousins in Hong Kong; this is just the beginning. Who knows what kind of country China will be in 2047, maybe there is hope for democratic China or 50 more years of democratic Hong Kong, who knows. As for Taiwan, Taiwanese people already identify themselves with being Taiwanese. Nearly 80% of people polled identify themselves in fact, in recent polls. Now we just need the older generation…

I doubt Mainland government will allow a “eventually” Taiwan independence because it hurts the legitimacy of CCP(on the MAINLAND!), which will have a cascading effect.

I'm quite sure Taiwan will last longer than the CCP in Beijing. The end game is PRC becomes democratic eventually and then Taiwan can "unify" - meaning, China becomes a federal republic with Taiwan as one of the states/provinces. People thought the Soviet Union would last forever and then, almost overnight, it was gone.

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#183

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #45
briandear wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violent protests brings out the tanks and people start dying literally in the streets. Unless you are talking about actual revolution, violent protest accomplishes nothing and results in losing the moral high ground which is critical if one is to have international support. Violent protest in Hong Kong would result in Beijing sending in soldiers to suppress the rebellion under the guise of “public safety.” You get ma…

It would be a huge risk. China is on the ropes in the political theater. Sending military troops to put down civilians in a free trade capital of the world would not earn them any favors.

I could see the 2047 date being extended. Hong Kong, as a percentage of China's total GDP, is just 2%, whereas back in 1997 it was about a quarter. Hong Kong isn't as economically relevant to China as it once was. So, let it be as-is under "One Country, Two Systems" to keep the peace with trade partners.

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#184

Post by ysleepy »

eqing wrote: post #50

People at both sides think they are legit. An average HKer: I don't trust China's Justice system, which is heavily influenced by their government. I could be sent to China for made-up crime. An average Chinese: Its a shame that HK as a part of China has Extradition treaties with all other countries but not Macau/Taiwan/Mainland (historical law by british). Imagine the same case for Hawaii and US Mainland.

China has a 99.9% conviction rate in court. So either they are almost infallible or trust in the justice system is not warranted at all.

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#185

Post by confusedhnguy »

hker wrote: post #174
confusedhnguy wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your other words, is the last paragraph really necessary? If you want us mainlanders to trust you, it is advisable to not praise Japan when it is not directly related to the conversation. Mainlanders are also perfectly capable of doing it, although we are not doing as good as we can. https://www.chinasmack.com/chinese-football-fans-pick-up-tra... Downvote me all you want, I still support your democ…

Thank you for your honest reply, I just upvoted you. > While I agree with your other words, is the last paragraph really necessary? If you want us mainlanders to trust you, it is advisable to not praise Japan when it is not directly related to the conversation. I agree that the last paragraph is not necessary. But I did learn something from your reply to my last paragraph. I personally separate the Japanese people we…

> separate the Japanese people we see nowadays from the wartime Japan under militarism

Yes, this is the sane choice. Unfortunately we both know that bad news draw more attention from the general public. Just like many mainlanders still remember vividly that (a small fraction of) HKers called them as locusts, when some Japanese say something bad about China, it gets spread much much faster than other news and stays in the memory for a long time. I was merely stating the fact that it is not a good idea to praise Japan in a conversation in general unless necessary, given the current state of our media. But still, their officials need to stop visiting the Shrine, or the names of the war criminals need to be removed.

> "riot" charge by the government

Usual CCP bs. My stand on this is that: HK is the best candidate for advocating changes to the CCP, if you can succeed before 2047 then we really own you a big favor. But HK should also remember that this is our internal affair, no foreign organization should interfere. The West can be used as extra pairs of eyes to keep the CCP checked so it doesn't repeat the disaster happened in Tiananmen square, but that's it. I hope you can understand why we don't trust the West, after we have witnessed the events happened elsewhere.

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#186

Post by 29athrowaway »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #170
29athrowaway wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PLA is not China's army, it is the Chinese communist party's army. PLA training is 90% political indoctrination, 10% combat training. They have garrisons in Hong Kong (edited). Unless the Chinese communist party self-destructs, there's no foreseeable end of communist rule in China. The social credit system and online censors prevent people from criticizing and opposing the government.

I don't think they have garrisons in Taipei. Please explain what you mean?

I meant garrisons in Hong Kong, facepalm.

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#187

Post by yissachar »

brainpool wrote: post #181
taiwanboy wrote: post #126

I am proud of our democratic cousins in Hong Kong; this is just the beginning. Who knows what kind of country China will be in 2047, maybe there is hope for democratic China or 50 more years of democratic Hong Kong, who knows. As for Taiwan, Taiwanese people already identify themselves with being Taiwanese. Nearly 80% of people polled identify themselves in fact, in recent polls. Now we just need the older generation…

Sorry, but China could invade Taiwan by breakfast and be done by lunch if it was so influens. The only reason it has not happened already has very little with Taiwan to do and more with geopolitical issues and Chinas dependency on oil.

This article disagrees with you:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/25/taiwan-can-win-a-war-wi...

> Both Westerners and Taiwanese should be more optimistic about the defense of Taiwan than is now normal.

> Yes, the Taiwanese Army projects that it can only hold off its enemy for two weeks after the landing—but the PLA also believes that if it cannot defeat the Taiwanese forces in under two weeks, it will lose the war!

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#188

Post by wyuenho »

XuMiao wrote: post #180
pimmen wrote: post #103

I live on the other side of the world, but this still strikes a deep chord with me. I'm Swedish, born and raised in Gothenburg. After the Umbrella protests in 2014 five people connected to the Causeway Bay Books store in Hong Kong disappeared. One of them is a naturalized Swedish citizen, his daughter was raised in my home town. He is now imprisoned and can't communicate with his daughter, or with the Swedish authori…

CCP does have a lot of room to improve in protecting human rights. But to be fair, for the matter of national security, every country takes the extreme measure. Look at the Assange case. Neither Swedish nor US government makes any sense to me.

Assange will get a fair trial, does the PRC know what a fair trial is?

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#189

Post by xxxpupugo »

taiwanboy wrote: post #154
whoevercares wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt Mainland government will allow a “eventually” Taiwan independence because it hurts the legitimacy of CCP(on the MAINLAND!), which will have a cascading effect.

Not sure what your point is, CCPs legitimacy just crashed when Carrie Lam, a puppet of CCP, just bowed to the pressure of 2M protestors in Hong Kong.

CCP's legitimacy is the war machine. Unlikely it will be deployed, but it is there nevertheless, and the perceived threat from US will only make it accelerate such actions.

Re: About 2M People Rally in Hong Kong Weekend Protests

#190

Post by hker »

confusedhnguy wrote: post #185
hker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your honest reply, I just upvoted you. > While I agree with your other words, is the last paragraph really necessary? If you want us mainlanders to trust you, it is advisable to not praise Japan when it is not directly related to the conversation. I agree that the last paragraph is not necessary. But I did learn something from your reply to my last paragraph. I personally separate the Japanese people we…

> separate the Japanese people we see nowadays from the wartime Japan under militarism Yes, this is the sane choice. Unfortunately we both know that bad news draw more attention from the general public. Just like many mainlanders still remember vividly that (a small fraction of) HKers called them as locusts, when some Japanese say something bad about China, it gets spread much much faster than other news and stays in…

> I was merely stating the fact that it is not a good idea to praise Japan in a conversation in general unless necessary, given the current state of our media.

Agreed, and points taken. Thanks.

> My stand on this is that: HK is the best candidate for advocating changes to the CCP, if you can succeed before 2047 then we really own you a big favor. But HK should also remember that this is our internal affair, no foreign organization should interfere. The West can be used as extra pairs of eyes to keep the CCP checked so it doesn't repeat the disaster happened in Tiananmen square, but that's it. I hope you can understand why we don't trust the West, after we have witnessed the events happened elsewhere.

That's reasonable. Thanks for voicing out your main concern: that China may lose control to foreign organization, hence CCP should stay unless absolutely unbearable. I think I understand more how mainlanders think now.

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