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Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

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Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Are you going to examine those? Most of those are the most free, most protective countries." I could I suppose go over more of them. The point though, that I was making when I mentioned in exempting fictitious future governments, is that it can be used NOW by real governments. Sure there will be nations that don't abuse it indefinitely, but you can't ensure a governments intent 5 years from now let alone 50. There a…

But for your example it isn't needed whatsoever. They do what they want without it. Denigrating a good initiative by association with a small number of suspect participants is not convincing. "Or maybe even Google and Facebook making anti-tech protests less visible because black bloc may show up." Google and Facebook can do anything and everything they want right now . And we know that they, among others, bring forwa…

"They do what they want without it."

That argument goes both ways, if they can do what they want now, then there is no need to sign it and it's just a fluff feel good piece of paper. But the fact is, there is power behind people, governments, and organizations throwing in public support.

"This is specious. In a period of ignorance, ignorance reigned supreme (not to mention a theocracy, which is dangerously close to re-emerging in the US). We now, at least in some realms, have an ability to reason and to cite and use fact."

This is literally the point I'm trying to make. The hate is ignorance, and the only way to stop that ignorance is to allow the flow and freedom of information and the exchange of ideas. That's the only way we are going to be able to change any minds.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The policy of one internet infrastructure firm doesn't validate the original claim of ISIS' online activity being 'ignored for well over a decade.'

It does imply they take it less seriously than stormfront, though.

Do you mean Cloudfront? I suppose so, but I don't know enough about the company to reach a firm conclusion.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#183
post #125

The Christchurch shooter amassed a cache of weapons, and also posted a copy of his manifesto and a link to his real Facebook account to 4chan. The censorship/Facebook algorithms amplifying abhorrent content debate is one thing but I'm surprised by the lack of scrutiny of the security services over this. Especially for a member of the 5 Eyes. I can't help but feel this could have been prevented without any of the chan…

4Chan and LiveLeak have both been blocked (via DNS) in Australia and New Zealand. So, the scrutiny albeit region specific has occurred.

Just to expand on this a little bit, it is contingent on ISP and as far as I know, the following websites:

- voat.co

- 4chan.org

- 8ch.net

- liveleak.com

- archive.is

- bitchute.com

- zerohedge.com

- kiwifarms.net

I think I'm right in saying that Telstra, Optus and Vodafone are the 'Big Three', and they have blocked the above.

Here in NZ, It's Vodafone, Spark and 2 Degrees, all of whom, I understand, blocked access, though I've been unable to verify this first-hand.

There are also hefty prison sentences [0] (up to 14 years) and fines for people who read/distributed the manifesto and watched/shared the original footage.

Edit: More comprehensive block-list can be found here: [1]

[0] - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/world/asia/new-zealand-at...

[1] - https://www.citizensagainstidiocracy.com/93/internet-censors...

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#184

This just sounds like a giant can of worms that is going to blow up in people's faces. Remove for a moment any potential future government alignments, just so we aren't talking about hypothetical fictitious governments. Let's just examine the governments currently signed to it. Indonesia has harsh religious laws, crack downs on illegal reporting, and literally raids on LGBTQ gatherings. The Senegal government arbitra…

That's a strawman, plus nazis/white nationalists are groups that actually spread anti-LGBTQ propaganda

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#185

This just sounds like a giant can of worms that is going to blow up in people's faces. Remove for a moment any potential future government alignments, just so we aren't talking about hypothetical fictitious governments. Let's just examine the governments currently signed to it. Indonesia has harsh religious laws, crack downs on illegal reporting, and literally raids on LGBTQ gatherings. The Senegal government arbitra…

Are you suggesting that certain countries would describe LGBTQ activities as "terrorist and violent extremist content"? I don't think they would need to, they have special anti-LGBTQ laws already.

Given that Saudi Arabia considers atheism to be a form of terrorism already, I don't see it as particularly far fetched. The reason to do so is because it allows making misleading claims for propaganda purposes.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4Chan and LiveLeak have both been blocked (via DNS) in Australia and New Zealand. So, the scrutiny albeit region specific has occurred.

Just to expand on this a little bit, it is contingent on ISP and as far as I know, the following websites: - voat.co - 4chan.org - 8ch.net - liveleak.com - archive.is - bitchute.com - zerohedge.com - kiwifarms.net I think I'm right in saying that Telstra, Optus and Vodafone are the 'Big Three', and they have blocked the above. Here in NZ, It's Vodafone, Spark and 2 Degrees, all of whom, I understand, blocked access,…

Wait, are you saying that watching the video is considered a crime in and of itself? Not redistribution, and not even mere possession, but just seeing it?

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#187
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What constitutes ‘extremism’? It’s a term so vague as to be practically meaninglessness.

> What constitutes ‘extremism’? It’s a term so vague as to be practically meaninglessness. No, it isn't. Inevitably someone like yourself will come into threads like these and attempt to start a slippery slope argument by trying to imply that the subject at hand is meaningless and, therefore, all attempts to address it are arbitrary. It really is strange how, for certain subjects, people just forget how English works…

I'm originally from a country where laws against "extremism" are actively used to target political opposition for over a decade.

Go ahead, tell me again how slippery slope is a fallacy.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looney was radicalised on the Internet, by a subset of Internet culture.

According to his manifesto the largest factor was a visit to France, not online activity.

His manifesto also included memes and copy pasta.He listened to meme music as he drove to the mosque, he said "Subscribe to Pewdiepie" before he shot the first victim.

The fact that he was a member of an online community that considered his views normal is extremely significant.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#189
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a slippery slope. For all intents and purposes we're accelerating down the slope. The Orwellian nightmare you talk about already exists in countries like China. The naive presumption that the West will always support free expression is baseless. It will not unless it's vigilantly defended by Westerners. And once given up, liberty is not easily regained (see Venezuela, Cuba, USSR, East Germany, etc). It's also w…

All Western countries have governments and are states based on the rule of law, and all place some limits on speech and expression. Even the US doesn't allow certain forms of expression, such as libel, slander, falsehoods, terroristic threats, etc. The West has therefore never supported free expression, just as it has never supported free markets. We are already on, and have always been on, that slope. Yet not all We…

Here are some examples of how Western countries with democratic governments and rule of law actually utilize those laws that place limits on speech and expression:

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29/in-europe-hate-speech-la...

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#190
post #125

The Christchurch shooter amassed a cache of weapons, and also posted a copy of his manifesto and a link to his real Facebook account to 4chan. The censorship/Facebook algorithms amplifying abhorrent content debate is one thing but I'm surprised by the lack of scrutiny of the security services over this. Especially for a member of the 5 Eyes. I can't help but feel this could have been prevented without any of the chan…

The Royal Commission of Inquiry is just beginning and will specifically focus on what the relevant agencies did, or failed to do.
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