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Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

nytimes.com

181–190 of 275 posts

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#181
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a little like terrorism. You can have tens of thousands of people die from cars, smoking and obesity. But if a fraction of that dies from terrorists the whole country changes. If one child gets hurt from a slide or abducted by a stranger the whole country changes to avoid this risk but all the other risks are silently accepted.

Absolutely. I did the math recently to come up with a comparison for how many people heart disease kills. Suppose the Columbine massacre had never stopped. Rather, all day, every day, the same rate of death kept happening as during the 49 minutes of the attack. You would need 5 of those continuous attacks ongoing at all times in order to be equivalent to heart disease in the US.

Does that account for likely years of life lost? If you die of heart disease at 65, that's many fewer years lost than someone getting killed at 15.

As gruesome/horrifying as these sorts of calculations are, I do take your point. We often get overly worried about unlikely dangers when obvious ones are staring us in the face.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between playgrounds and work environments: as far as I am aware, workers aren't any more miserable in safer work environment. Children in "safer" playgrounds, are . The value of life is not infinite. It is perfectly reasonable to sacrifice a few to improve the conditions of the many. Funnier, riskier playgrounds do exactly that. That said, the article stated the "safer" playground engendered more…

> The value of life is not infinite. The whole western civilization is standing on the assumption that it is.

Assume this is true. The NHS is in the UK and run by the government. The NHS has a maximum spend on a single person.

The UK is part of Western Civilization. Therefore it rests on the assumption that life has infinite value. Therefore, the UK will spend infinite money to ensure a person lives.

A contradiction.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#183
post #23
post #4

"Grown-ups have taken all the fun out of being a kid just to save a few thousand lives." https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/2017/04/06/george-carlin-you-a...

This feels like a really unconvincing argument. A few thousand is a lot of lives. A few lives would feel like a few too many.

What's the risk threshold you'd be comfortable with?

1 in a 1,000? 6 in 10,000? 13 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000?

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#184
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use rubber mulch then? Lots of playgrounds already use it, and it offers the cushioning of wood chips and the "softness" of rubber matting.

I think he means wood chips hurt, so kids don't jump off things from so high, so its less likely to break bones.

My understanding (not an expert) is that it's a combination of less high jumps/falls because "wood chips hurt", and reduced long bone injuries for the jumps/falls that due occur due to differences in the way the material responds to the impact. Wood chips slide and absorb some of the kinetic energy, while rubber matting (and probably rubber chips?) stay in place and rebound the energy back.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#185
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a little like terrorism. You can have tens of thousands of people die from cars, smoking and obesity. But if a fraction of that dies from terrorists the whole country changes. If one child gets hurt from a slide or abducted by a stranger the whole country changes to avoid this risk but all the other risks are silently accepted.

Absolutely. I did the math recently to come up with a comparison for how many people heart disease kills. Suppose the Columbine massacre had never stopped. Rather, all day, every day, the same rate of death kept happening as during the 49 minutes of the attack. You would need 5 of those continuous attacks ongoing at all times in order to be equivalent to heart disease in the US.

To be very honest heart disease is also overreacted against. Especially when people read things like "food x causes % increase in heart disease"

But in the end it is a "natural" cause of death., It's not like people wouldn't be dying of something else

20yrs extra? Sure. 0.5% increase in heart disease for people over 60? Don't waste my time

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#186
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it bluntly, the increased happiness of millions of children is worth a couple children's health, or even lives. That's a tough sell, but that sounds reasonable (well, I can talk, I don't have children). This is basically the same reasoning Yudkowsky presented with his dust speck vs torture argument argument: a sufficiently widespread benefit, however small, will outweigh a sufficiently improbable horrible even…

No, it isn't. We can all survive with a little less happiness. If our playgrounds are a little more boring, we can all deal. (though if anything they are a lot nicer than the ones I grew up with) Happiness is a good that can come from many sources, and while it's nice to have, if it is reduced, we can usually adapt to it by finding a new source. Happiness shouldn't be a reason to trade lives.

That reminds me of the villian robot in I, Robot movie. They don't want to harm human, they just want to keep them in the house, so that there is less crime, and less people die.

It may take away freedom. But freedom should not be a reason to trade lives.

Some may say the playground is about happiness, some may say it's about the freedom to experience.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#187
post #144
post #21

You're right - anything that provokes fear or outrage gets instant attention. Everything else doesn't. North Korea imprisoning a single idiot American who crossed the border = national dialogue because it's outrageous School shooting where 3 people die = national dialogue on gun control because it's outrageous. DUI accident that kills a family of 5 = small blurb in local news because it's not outrageous (even if it s…

I don't think it's as much an outrage thing as it is a control thing. Sure, cars are unsafe and thousands of people die on the roads every year, but I am a good driver and I won't have a bad accident like that. If I do it's my own fault. Yes, eating too much is bad for me but it's my own fault - I could just eat less. (side note - if I believe it would be my fault if I die of something, I'm going to believe if you di…

[deleted]

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#188
post #31

An example from the '00s: We sent our kid to a German school in Menlo Park. He immediately loved it on the first visit because the under-5s' playground was full of old wood with splinters and dangerous tools (hammers, saws etc) and the little kids could cause all sorts of ruckus, like building dams and flooding them. But the reality of a foreign-language school is that you need more than just "nationals" (people who…

Not having seen said playground, I can only wonder as to the specifics of the dangerous tools. I presume they were kid-versions, e.g. no 2lb claw hammers or razor sharp 16" rip saws.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#190

I have a zipline in my back yard, when I first put it up it was roughly 80' long, my kids were 4 & 6 and I would manage them because (a) be a parent and (b) they were careless/clueless AF. I extended the zipline to 200' this spring, it goes over about 50' of water. They're 6 & 8 now, they hook themselves up and do all the safety checks I showed them once. Literally once. They also have full access to my workshop, the…

Kids have a respect for responsibility, but they also test limits and are still developing their sense of risk & consequences. So IMO it's the parent's job to permit reasonable risk & educate the kid, and permit further, greater risk as they prove themselves.

History is absolutely full of young people who did not survive due to but a moment's inattention or foolishness.

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