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Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

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Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#181
post #158

Dumb question... Wouldn't it be possible to fork the namespace to something like javax -> jawax (or java->borneo as someone suggested) and then patch the JVM to alias the javax package to the would-be jawax package (or borneox or whatever) ?

Technically easy, but thought to expose that new JVM legally.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except Kotlin no new JVM language Java's never going to be on the bleeding-edge of trendiness (thank goodness). But there have been fewer JVM-targeting alternative languages over the past decade, because Java itself started leaning in a functional direction. It became "good enough" to negate the purpose for most of them. At any rate, counting compile targets for hobbyist toy languages is barely one step beyond meas…

> except Kotlin no new JVM language. What about Clojure? I 100% agree with you on Java. Some of these people who compare Java to Cobol have no idea. It’s hard for anyone to predict the future in tech but at this point Java is so widely used in the enterprise that it’s foolhardy to think that Java will disappear anytime soon. To the credit of the Java community they keep the language relevant and refreshed. I agree it…

Clojure doesn't fit in the original poster's "last 10 years" qualifier. It's older than that.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#185
post #32
post #10

« Oracle already started a blocking politics at the Eclipse Foundation’s board, where Oracle has a seat, and where unanimous decisions are needed. Oracle now has the power, and apparently will use that power, to block the foundation’s future. It demonstrated that power already in a board meeting, where they had the sole vote against an otherwise unaimous move. » I hope other organisations with a director from Oracle…

For me it's more a lesson about how unanimous votes, or unanimous - N can become problematic. In the EU the same is happening. Poland and Hungary have found a loophole allowing them to ignore EU rules and sanctions while still profiting from subsidies and market access. All sanctions against a member state require unanimous-1 (all states except the sanctioned member) votes and Poland is vetoing all sanctions against…

You think e.g. Germany doesn't do the same with several satellite countries they play for with funds, trade deals, diplomatic pressure, and so on, to get a bunch of votes on EU matters based on their interests?

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to switch to C#. Funny how it took Oracle to do what C# originally intended to do: kill Java.

I think every Java developer should be familiar with C# and dotNet Core. There is a lot of similarities between the languages and it will be easy for any Java developer to pick up.

> There is a lot of similarities between the languages and it will be easy for any Java developer to pick up.

Could you recommend good tutorials/manuals for developers with Java experience to learn C# (preferably without having to install Windows)?

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#187
post #99
post #12

.NET Core will welcome this round of Java orphans with open arms.

First it needs to sort out its history of not being compatible with all .NET Framework libraries.

This has already happened. You're simply spreading FUD. Nearly all the major libraries .NET Framework developers have had access to since 2002 are now available as .NET Standard libraries.

.NET Standard is the compatibility[1] you talk about, but seem to know nothing about.

[1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/net-standar...

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#188
post #137
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of them have a lot of work to catch up with 25 years of market experience.

You could have said the same about Cobol in the '90s

You could say something similar about Cobol now. Except replace 25 years with 60 years.

Lots of people on HN would probably be shocked at how many Cobol apps are still up and running and actively maintained.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#189
post #147
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's more a lesson about how unanimous votes, or unanimous - N can become problematic. In the EU the same is happening. Poland and Hungary have found a loophole allowing them to ignore EU rules and sanctions while still profiting from subsidies and market access. All sanctions against a member state require unanimous-1 (all states except the sanctioned member) votes and Poland is vetoing all sanctions against…

> Poland and Hungary have found a loophole allowing them to ignore EU rules and sanctions while still profiting from subsidies and market access AFAIK this was tit-for-tat: HU & PL closed/sold-off their industry in favor of WEU in exchange for subsidies. Removing these subsidies for any reason would violate the main economic agreement between them and EU. Mind you, there is no significant locally grown industry in th…

Same playbook as with Greece -- which up to the 80s and the EEC had a larger industry presence, and discarded most of it with non-compete laws and the lure of subsidies in favor of the nothern-western parts of WEU.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#190
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By entreprise software, I mean the traditional heavy Java frameworks & tooling.

That is not Enterprise Software. It is less the language and the frameworks which are making it Enterprise but the requirements placed on them and the software development lifecycles. Imagine you do a medical product and the regulations needed for FDA approval require you to check for vulnerabilities in your product and build infrastructure. Have you ever checked all packages in a npm dependency tree for vulnerabilit…

> Imagine you do a medical product and the regulations needed for FDA approval require you to check for vulnerabilities in your product and build infrastructure. Have you ever checked all packages in a npm dependency tree for vulnerabilities?

The same way as any other language? With audits? I don't get your comment.

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