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Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

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Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#181

Post by Marsymars »

mywittyname wrote: post #112
flyingpenguin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think caffeine and other uppers play a large role as well. I am sitting at a desk doing nothing but I need my brain to be in the state its in when I am doing harrowing physical activity. My quality of sleep reflects this.

I think this warrants a closer look. We do work in a profession that has a cognitive load that is wildly disproportionate to our physiological load. I suspect that some of us need heavy physical activity during the day in order to sleep well. Anecdotally, when I worked construction I had zero issues going to bed at 9pm and getting to work at 7 every day. But now that I sit at a desk for 9-12 hours a day, I'm rarely a…

> I suspect that some of us need heavy physical activity during the day in order to sleep well.

Yes, this is absolutely the case. I do software as a dayjob, but do an hour or two of heavy physical activity every day (or more on weekends), and sleep great nearly all the time.

When I've had injuries that prevent me from my regular exercise routine, my quality of sleep takes a huge hit. To the point that last time I had a severe ankle sprain, I'd go to a gym (which I don't normally do) just to use one of those arm bike machines to tire myself out.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#182

Post by fredsir »

fwip wrote: post #176
jacobolus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found many people in our society treat most risks as black/white, and treat minor risk-taking as a taboo irrespective of potential benefits, while at the same time entirely ignoring serious risks that would be inconvenient to avoid. This goes double for anything related to children. For example, localized air pollution from an idling pickup truck is obviously worse than standing outside near someone smoking, b…

It's much easier to wear shoes than avoid all automobiles. Public places require shoes for hygiene reasons, not for book-dropping incidents.

I wonder how much cleaner my shoes are than me feet. I wash my feet at least everyday, but seldom wash my shoes.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#183

Post by jacobolus »

fwip wrote: post #176
jacobolus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found many people in our society treat most risks as black/white, and treat minor risk-taking as a taboo irrespective of potential benefits, while at the same time entirely ignoring serious risks that would be inconvenient to avoid. This goes double for anything related to children. For example, localized air pollution from an idling pickup truck is obviously worse than standing outside near someone smoking, b…

It's much easier to wear shoes than avoid all automobiles. Public places require shoes for hygiene reasons, not for book-dropping incidents.

What “hygiene reason” are you thinking of? In the general case it doesn’t seem any more or less hygienic to touch the bottom of my shoe to the library floor vs. the bottom of my bare foot. Both are going to be comparably dirty if I walked in off the sidewalk (the foot is probably a bit cleaner on average).

If the worry is something like fungal or bacterial infections of the feet, those thrive in the warm, wet environment of a sock/shoe, and can’t survive when consistently exposed to fresh air and sunshine.

If the worry is injury/liability, then high-heeled shoes would be the obvious first thing to ban. Those are dramatically more dangerous than bare feet in basically every context.

I suppose if someone had gaping sores on the bottoms of their feet it might leave gross/contagious residue? But someone could just as easily track vomit, feces, cake frosting, rotten food, chewing gum, or whatever other yucky thing in on the bottom of their shoe. The “has a serious contagious skin disease” case seems like it would be handled better with a more targeted restriction, since I don’t think you want such people’s hands touching stuff in public spaces either.

My guess is that the real reason is to keep barefoot, shirtless, etc. homeless people and/or hippies out of public buildings. There are also rules against lying down, being drunk or intoxicated, making loud noises, bringing luggage or carts, communicating “willfully” or obscenely, emitting strong odors, &c. I’d be curious to learn more about the history of restrictions against bare feet in particular.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#184

Post by theNJR »

illirik wrote: post #126
heymijo wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. And please note, I'm not prescribing or suggesting anything about the end of the world regarding a single missed night of sleep. I am commenting about the world of ignorance I had regarding sleep prior to a very recent education. If you or other people reading this are unaware of the depth of what sleep research has learned in the past 15 or so years I will point you to this six hour conversation that Dr. Matth…

I don't want to be dismissive, but is there a good TLDR on this, preferably in written form, or any other resources you'd recommend? I'd love to catch up on the science, but listening to six hours of podcast might cut into my sleep!

Listen at 2x. Bam, 3 hours instead of 6. That’s a few commutes, work outs, or some other daily task that can be filled with audio. And it’s very easy listening.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#185

Post by theNJR »

TuringNYC wrote: post #87
Ntrails wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except, sleep isn't a debt because the loss can't be repaid. sort of ? The impact of missed sleep has a half life. A single night of 4 hours sleep, followed by a year of normal nights sleep will lead to a me that is indistinguishable from the me that slept 8 hours that same night. I'm all for sleeping properly, but lets not suggest that it is the end of the world any time someone doesn't get their standard n hours

>> A single night of 4 hours sleep, followed by a year of normal nights sleep will lead to a me that is indistinguishable from the me that slept 8 hours that same night. Usually. Except if the 4 hours of sleep leads you to crash your car, or run into a pedestrian, or forget your child in a car. In the usual case, a day of missed sleep is normally OK, but when you are responsible for other people (rather than just cod…

This.

In the previously mentioned podcast the host, a former doctor, tells a pretty scary story about being a sleep deprived doctor.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#186

Post by loco5niner »

robocat wrote: post #160
loco5niner wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather roll the dice on a one-off suffocation than... WHAT!? No way. SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) is a real danger and not something to be dismissed lightly. http://www.idph.state.il.us/sids/sids_factsheet.htm

"In 2017, there were about 1,400 deaths due to SIDS, about 1,300 deaths due to unknown causes, and about 900 deaths due to accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed." [1] which works out to be approximately 1 in 1000 babies die of SIDS. The link you gave says 2500 per year due to SIDS - which appears overstated by 70%. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/sids/data.htm

I don't think you broke it down right, but I'll leave it to the Illinois Dept of Public Health and the CDC to determine who is right on the numbers.

Either way, it is significant.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#187

Post by anoplus »

charliemil4 wrote: post #41
anoplus wrote: post #16

Programmer in a start-up here. Please do talk about this with your workaholic colleagues as I did! We need to create an industry standard here. Sleep is super important to success and happiness, and I just recently found that sleep is not enough. I need also rest. If I don't have rest and relaxation often I get tired for several days regardless of sleep time. Writing this after deliberate 5 minutes downtime.

Why don't you think your colleagues value sleep? Is it that there's no data, save qualitative, backing up your claims?

I think there is enough supportive data today, and that sleep deprivation still exists from cultural reasons. In my case it has improved as new folks joined the group and brought cultural change. Even if one knows the data alone, one might give in external pressure. I think its true for other things like smoking, alcohol etc.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#188

Post by Starwatcher2001 »

vageli wrote: post #145
TuringNYC wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> A single night of 4 hours sleep, followed by a year of normal nights sleep will lead to a me that is indistinguishable from the me that slept 8 hours that same night. Usually. Except if the 4 hours of sleep leads you to crash your car, or run into a pedestrian, or forget your child in a car. In the usual case, a day of missed sleep is normally OK, but when you are responsible for other people (rather than just cod…

> Usually. Except if the 4 hours of sleep leads you to crash your car, or run into a pedestrian, or forget your child in a car. > In the usual case, a day of missed sleep is normally OK, but when you are responsible for other people (rather than just code quality/productivity), why risk it? And even in the general case...why risk it? It is far better to lead a normal lifestyle and be at peak performance in all parts…

I quite agree with the problem of having to trade sleep for other necessities, but personally I didn't realise the actual cost of that trade, and the serious long term effects that 90+ hour weeks might have on me.

In my case it wasn't a second job, it was trying to be more productive to help a fledgling company fly. In retrospect I'd have been a lot more productive with a good 8 hours sleep in my tank every night.

Walker's book on sleep opened my eyes that much that I bought copies for all the family. I've never done that before.

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#189

Post by PebblesRox »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #83
andrei_says_ wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cosleeping can dramatically reduce sleep deprivation for parents. We humans have evolved to cosleep with our babies. In a cosleeping situation the baby does not experience terror (a baby left alone in nature has zero survival chances so this terror is programmed and so leaving a baby to sleep alone is counterproductive and cruel), can feel the warmth and heartbeat of the mother, can feed without and before fully waki…

Isn't the risk of accidentally suffocating the baby quite high when co-sleeping? I think I'd prefer a bed-side crib.

We were convinced by the research and arguments presented in the book “Sweet Sleep” that we could bedshare without a significant risk of SUID given our circumstances (breastfeeding, non-smokers, no alcohol or medication that would induce drowsiness) and the proper preparations (firm mattress, light bedding, packing towels between the mattress and wall to eliminate gaps).

We initially planned to use a side-car crib (we had a convertible crib with one wall removed, pushed up against our bed with the mattresses at the same height so it formed an extension of the sleep surface) but our son was such a barnacle baby that he refused to sleep even a foot away from me. Not all babies are that clingy, so it’s definitely a good option for a lot of families.

Bedsharing allowed both me and my husband to avoid sleep deprivation, even with a newborn. Our son would wake up and start to squirm and make tiny noises, which was enough to wake me up so I could nurse him, but never reached the level of crying that would wake up my husband, who was able to sleep a normal 8 hours and get up for work feeling well-rested.

I was also able to get rest equivalent to 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep; it just required staying in bed for 12 hours in those first few months because of all the partial wake-ups for nursing.

I can’t imagine how much more difficult our lives would have been without the high-quality sleep we were able to get due to our choice to bed-share.

We’re in the process of transitioning our 2-year-old to his own bed to make room for his little brother who is due in a few months. The transition is going very smoothly. We could have done it sooner but bedsharing was working well for all of us so we saw no reason to make a change.

Here’s the link to the book “Sweet Sleep” Even if you’re not comfortable bed-sharing intentionally, it’s important to have a safe sleep surface set up because of how common it is for parents (especially breast-feeding mothers) to fall asleep accidentally with their babies. Much safer for accidental co-sleeping to happen in a prepared bed vs. on a recliner or couch where the risks of suffocation are very high. https://g.co/kgs/jCrdAX

Re: Impact of a Night of Sleep Deprivation on Novice Developers’ Performance (2018)

#190

Post by Ntrails »

civility wrote: post #153
Ntrails wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except, sleep isn't a debt because the loss can't be repaid. sort of ? The impact of missed sleep has a half life. A single night of 4 hours sleep, followed by a year of normal nights sleep will lead to a me that is indistinguishable from the me that slept 8 hours that same night. I'm all for sleeping properly, but lets not suggest that it is the end of the world any time someone doesn't get their standard n hours

> A single night of 4 hours sleep, followed by a year of normal nights sleep will lead to a me that is indistinguishable from the me that slept 8 hours that same night. [...] I'm all for sleeping properly, but lets not suggest that it is the end of the world any time someone doesn't get their standard n hours I think of it kind of like burning yourself on a flame. Yes, a second degree burn will heal, and in a year yo…

That is actually an analogy i am pretty happy with. We can argue about the actual severity, but in principle it feels consistent. (Conveniently working in kitchens has given me a lot of experience of regular small burns xD)
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