Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 207 posts

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#181

Post by dragonwriter »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #158
ben_w wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how much my personality shifts from relatively minor things like switching between high/low carb diets, or medium things like whatever was in my drip when I went under general anaesthetic, I totally believe that her personality was changed by having a transplant, or separately by her anti-rejection meds. I’d be surprised if most such changes have statistically strong correlation with organ donor personalities.

I totally believe that her personality was changed by having a transplant, or separately by her anti-rejection meds. Thanks. I’d be surprised if most such changes have statistically strong correlation with organ donor personalities. So would I. I'm not talking about most such changes or statistical significance. I'm talking about one specific case that was unusually well documented and highly scrutinized that potenti…

Personality transfer by transfer of parts of the body other than the brain, even if it was clear from h evidence, isn't scientific affirmation of the soul, it's scientific reinforcement that the “self” is contained in the body not some separate soul. It contradicts the understanding that the seat of the self in the body is solely and exclusively the brain, but that doesn't support the idea of the soul.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#182

Post by DoreenMichele »

dragonwriter wrote: post #181
DoreenMichele wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally believe that her personality was changed by having a transplant, or separately by her anti-rejection meds. Thanks. I’d be surprised if most such changes have statistically strong correlation with organ donor personalities. So would I. I'm not talking about most such changes or statistical significance. I'm talking about one specific case that was unusually well documented and highly scrutinized that potenti…

Personality transfer by transfer of parts of the body other than the brain, even if it was clear from h evidence, isn't scientific affirmation of the soul, it's scientific reinforcement that the “self” is contained in the body not some separate soul. It contradicts the understanding that the seat of the self in the body is solely and exclusively the brain, but that doesn't support the idea of the soul.

Not enough qualifiers for you? Putting souls in quotation marks and adding or something we might describe with that word wasn't adequate?

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#183

Post by scotty79 »

moises_silva wrote: post #120
scotty79 wrote: post #44

Freezing your head might be good idea. If one day you could simulate a braina and scan a brain in sufficient detail just freezing might be enough to keep sufficient detail. Who you are must be in chemistry of your brain not in the electricity because you are same person after epileptic seizure as before.

You might be interested on https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html

... intersting but some ideas are bit silly. You can't copy brain to brain. No two brains are the same. You have to copy whole brain.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#184

Post by Jaruzel »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #160
imrelaxed wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely, it’s probably a lot like a sensory deprivation tank. You likely start to hallucinate after a period of time and deteriorate to some strange state of existence.

It turns out to be extremely hard to confirm that this hasn't already happened.

The obvious extrapolation is that we're all now brains in jars, and this existence we perceive is a shared hallucination brought on by the jars all being connected to the same keep-the-brains-alive-system.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#185

Post by chr1 »

kbenson wrote: post #176
chr1 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all cases i would not lose anything, because i would have already lost everything when dying. So in all cases it's a bonus time, and though being properly resurrected would be great, helping scientific progress and dying is still better than simply dying.

That's very optimistic of you. I can definitely think of a few situations in which I would be better off without that "bonus time". I'm not sure we have enough information to know how a brain would perceive being activated but without most it's sensory organs and the busy it was grown in. If you're used for experimentation before they have a way to communicate, stuck in void with only yourself for company is really a…

It is not about optimism, my point is that pain, torture, death are bad because they deprive you of future possibilities. If you are already dead, you do not have any future to lose, and in that case if your torture can help others, the rational choice is to help.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#186

Post by ben_w »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #182
dragonwriter wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personality transfer by transfer of parts of the body other than the brain, even if it was clear from h evidence, isn't scientific affirmation of the soul, it's scientific reinforcement that the “self” is contained in the body not some separate soul. It contradicts the understanding that the seat of the self in the body is solely and exclusively the brain, but that doesn't support the idea of the soul.

Not enough qualifiers for you? Putting souls in quotation marks and adding or something we might describe with that word wasn't adequate?

I’m going to have to say “no”; the word comes with a lot of cultural baggage, and it’s not clear what you might mean by “something we might describe with that word” if not Cartesian dualism — not because there are no possibilities, just because those alternatives are not well known.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#187

Post by DoreenMichele »

ben_w wrote: post #186
DoreenMichele wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not enough qualifiers for you? Putting souls in quotation marks and adding or something we might describe with that word wasn't adequate?

I’m going to have to say “no”; the word comes with a lot of cultural baggage, and it’s not clear what you might mean by “something we might describe with that word” if not Cartesian dualism — not because there are no possibilities, just because those alternatives are not well known.

I'm aware it comes with baggage. That's why I made an effort to qualify it.

I don't personally think it's hugely important whether one prefers the framing of self over soul. The woman told a tale that credibly suggested she got something of his consciousness in the exchange, not just his physical organs.

I realize it matters a whole lot to most people which framing gets used. Again, this is why I did my best to qualify it.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#188

Post by ben_w »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #187
ben_w wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to have to say “no”; the word comes with a lot of cultural baggage, and it’s not clear what you might mean by “something we might describe with that word” if not Cartesian dualism — not because there are no possibilities, just because those alternatives are not well known.

I'm aware it comes with baggage. That's why I made an effort to qualify it. I don't personally think it's hugely important whether one prefers the framing of self over soul. The woman told a tale that credibly suggested she got something of his consciousness in the exchange, not just his physical organs. I realize it matters a whole lot to most people which framing gets used. Again, this is why I did my best to quali…

Hm.

I think if you’d said “‘self’ is more than just the (brain|connectome)”, a lot more people would agree with you.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#189

Post by dragonwriter »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #187
ben_w wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to have to say “no”; the word comes with a lot of cultural baggage, and it’s not clear what you might mean by “something we might describe with that word” if not Cartesian dualism — not because there are no possibilities, just because those alternatives are not well known.

I'm aware it comes with baggage. That's why I made an effort to qualify it. I don't personally think it's hugely important whether one prefers the framing of self over soul. The woman told a tale that credibly suggested she got something of his consciousness in the exchange, not just his physical organs. I realize it matters a whole lot to most people which framing gets used. Again, this is why I did my best to quali…

> I don't personally think it's hugely important whether one prefers the framing of self over soul.

The existence of the self, and it being seated in physical organs, is noncontroversial, and in no way particular associated with the spiritual belief of people who go to church. The idea that the self is seated somewhere distinct from the body—the soul—is. So, I think that the “framing” is quite relevant to the connections you tried to draw upthread.

Which isn't to say it's not an interesting anecdote (though, on its own, of very little probative value) either way.

Re: Pig brains partially revived four hours after death

#190

Post by DoreenMichele »

ben_w wrote: post #188
DoreenMichele wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware it comes with baggage. That's why I made an effort to qualify it. I don't personally think it's hugely important whether one prefers the framing of self over soul. The woman told a tale that credibly suggested she got something of his consciousness in the exchange, not just his physical organs. I realize it matters a whole lot to most people which framing gets used. Again, this is why I did my best to quali…

Hm. I think if you’d said “‘self’ is more than just the (brain|connectome)”, a lot more people would agree with you.

No one is required to agree with me.
Post reply on HN