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Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

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Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#181
post #114

I don't get the whole "oh it's too blurry and nothing is visible" comments. It's a black hole, what did you expect to see? Interstellar CGI?

It is a letdown. Although I wasn't expecting Jupiter level detail this pic doesn't blow me away because it's just a blurry ring. Jupiter level detail will blow me away.

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#182

I always thought we have photographed black holes. Any idea/link to article where it explains why this took so long and why it was difficult?

Their website talks about some of the challenges of getting a picture of a black hole: https://eventhorizontelescope.org/home

All of the data used to generate the image was gathered by around a dozen different telescopes around the world. The black hole itself also needs to be in a specific configuration in order for us to be able to see it. It needs to have an accretion disk that's generating light. It needs to be sufficiently large or close. And it can't be obfuscated by other astronomical objects like stars or nebulae. This black hole itself is hugeeeeee and far. It's about the size of our solar system, but it's ~52 million light years away.

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#183

I always thought we have photographed black holes. Any idea/link to article where it explains why this took so long and why it was difficult?

This is as far as I understand the first picture of a black hole shadow, that is the dark disc that indicates that there is actually light missing. Before that, there were astrophysical observations that strongly indicated that there is a black hole, for example QSOs, that is a bright combination of accretion disc and jet, that is powered by a black hole, or one paper I really liked tried to argue that there has to be a black hole in Cygni X1 because otherwise we would see the missing matter crashing into something. (Cygni X1 is a binary of a star and something very bright and the star is loosing mass.)

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#184
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we're using a telescope the size of the Earth to look at an object the size of our solar system in a galaxy about 55 million light years away. It's an infinitesimally small patch of sky. On the other hand, the jet from the M87 black hole is quite large and we have good images of it. It's even resolvable by amateurs, I hope to take a picture of it over Easter with a small telescope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

> 55 million light years didn't he correct himself and said kilometers

55 million light years is about correct. Wikipedia still has 53.5 ± 1.63 Mly from older observations, but appendix I in paper https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/ab1141 has a bit more on the distance measurements they used. They arrive at 16.76 ± 0.75 Mpc, which translates into 54.7 ± 2.4 Mly.

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#186
post #30

Higher resolution official release seems to be: https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/blackholes/download...

Does that image have a weird pulsing optical illusion for anyone else?

Stare at it till there are two, then have fun snapping them in and out.

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look anything like Gargantua in Interstellar, but it's not really supposed to, except for the most prominent features. Interstellar showed what a black hole might look like in visible light while in orbit around it. This is a radio telescope image from a far away galaxy.

Interstellar also turned off the doppler effect, maybe to get a boring symmetric ring instead of an awesome asymmetric one as nature intended it to be!

IIRC, the black hole in Interstellar was also rapidly rotating, which I think was significant to how it looked:

https://www.wired.com/2014/10/astrophysics-interstellar-blac...

> Nolan's story relied on time dilation: time passing at different rates for different characters. To make this scientifically plausible, Thorne told him, he'd need a massive black hole—in the movie it's called Gargantua—spinning at nearly the speed of light.

> ...

> Von Tunzelmann tried a tricky demo. She generated a flat, multicolored ring—a stand-in for the accretion disk—and positioned it around their spinning black hole. Something very, very weird happened. “We found that warping space around the black hole also warps the accretion disk,” Franklin says. “So rather than looking like Saturn's rings around a black sphere, the light creates this extraordinary halo.”

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you basing that on? (Edit:) From one of the papers released today: > The ring is brighter in the south than the north. This can be explained by a combination of motion in the source and Doppler beaming. As a simple example we consider a luminous, optically thin ring... Then the approaching side of the ring is Doppler boosted, and the receding side is Doppler dimmed...This sense of rotation is consistent with…

Are north and south in astronomy defined relative to Earth’s poles? What about “lateral” directions, since east and west are relative (no poles, ie. no east of earth)?

Using the right-hand rule: knowing the direction of spinning, if you point your thumb up and wrap the other four fingers in the direction of rotation, the thumb will be pointing North. Oposite of that is South. East can then be defined along the direction of spinning (eastward or counterclockwise looked from North, the way Earth is spinning) and West - opposite to that, clockwise looked from North, opposite the direction of rotation.

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#189
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So amazing that scientists were able to predict what something would look like that we have never seen before.

It's good science. Been able to make testable predictions and then confirming them or disproving them is the entire (awesome) point.

ad Good science, I just randomly bumped into this video today that very nicely explains the differences between good science and bad science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umo6pMCkcXs (safely skip the first 3 minutes)

Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]

#190
post #114

I don't get the whole "oh it's too blurry and nothing is visible" comments. It's a black hole, what did you expect to see? Interstellar CGI?

It is a letdown. Although I wasn't expecting Jupiter level detail this pic doesn't blow me away because it's just a blurry ring. Jupiter level detail will blow me away.

The significance of the image is not in its quality, but in its mere existence.

It's enough to confirm various predictions, and should give a new baseline for truth about black holes.

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