Time value of money discussions never take into the fact that 1) tomorrow is never guaranteed and 2) there are certain things or experiences you can buy that are more enjoyable when you’re young than when you’re old.
Buy Yourself a Latte
181–190 of 351 posts
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Taking out 5 mins to make a coffee isn't that significant. No, it's not. Just as spending $5 on a latte every day isn't that significant either (for the assumed "average tech worker").
That's $100/$200 a month depending on how many coffees you drink per day. That is 4-5 nice meals in a restaurant. It sure is significant for me.
$200/mo applied to a mortgage payment can be a substantial difference in neighborhood.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#183Counterpoint: The debate is framed as "$5 a day is a waste--put it into your piggy bank every day and drink office sludge instead". I instead say that yes, the office coffee still tastes like fertilizer, but I still think $5 a day for a latte is waste because I can make some excellent coffee at my desk for about a dollar a day using an inexpensive French Press, a hand-grinder (or grinding the beans that morning at ho…
And you can cut the fat out of your caffeine consumption too, both in time and money. I take caffeine pills now over coffee (mostly to combat coffee breath and the guaranteed poop 20 minutes after drinking). 200mg, equal to a grande I figure, 5 cents a pill, and maybe 20 seconds to plop one into my hand then my mouth. The speed and price is a boon for me, but also how compact the dose becomes. I can take it anywhere…
That's cool but you miss out on things like quercetin:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019745801...
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#184If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…
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Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#185If part of your audience consists of people living without much a safety net, that $5 a day adds up. Also, the author's point that saving that much isn't going to be $1 million, but "only" as much as $500,000 then that point rather falls flat. Sure, inflation may decrease the utility of that amount of money, but it will also increase the cost of that latte, so you'll be saving more than just the $5 over time. Finally…
> But congratulations, you're in a significant minority, and this advice is aimed at the rest of the working populace who aren't in that situation.
Wait, so you are saying people who can least afford to spend on daily luxury to spend more money? That is basically like a secret business plan of financial and credit companies, who basically get majority of their profit from overdraft, interest charges and fees.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#186I grew up in a poor family, could never afford anything unless miracles happened, never went on any trips etc. I later scaled all the way up to much more than I needed as a software developer and lately I'm pretty much down to nothing.
The main thing I learned over 42 years of going back and forth is that a warm place to sleep, good health, good food (and coffee) and nice, caring people are priceless.
Money is the ultimate drug, yet piling it up and walking over dead bodies to get ever more is seen as successful and worthy of admiration. I know a junkie when I see one, the fact that the drug is legal changes nothing.
Dropping $5 you don't have on overpriced coffee is proving that it has no power over you.
Posting this here is likely karma suicide, but here we go; this is my perspective, and it's as valid as any other.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Taking out 5 mins to make a coffee isn't that significant. No, it's not. Just as spending $5 on a latte every day isn't that significant either (for the assumed "average tech worker").
That's $100/$200 a month depending on how many coffees you drink per day. That is 4-5 nice meals in a restaurant. It sure is significant for me.
If we stick with our "tech worker", in that month they have likely earned in excess of $12,000. Even at $200, that's around 2% of the exemplar employee's earnings.
If $200 is a significant amount that you don't want to spend, that's completely fine. But it's also not that much when you look at it, even as a leisure purchase.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#188To give this conversation a more concrete example, here is (linked below) a calculation of saving $5 a day over 40 years, in real (inflation adjusted) dollars, assuming returns on invested assets are 7% per year. This is a realistic number based on >100 years of U.S. real (inflation adjusted) stock performance. You end up with $377k after 40 years. In my opinion, a lot of Americans and people around the first world l…
> However, many poorer folks need to learn self-control and the power of saving.
Counterpoint: the many ways that our economic system can wipe out whatever savings you might have (medical costs, unemployment, legal costs that fall heaviest upon the poor) make spending money on pure luxury - or even the lottery for that matter - a perfectly rational action.
If you don't believe your savings will be there tomorrow, why not spend it today?
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The article isn't advocating that you buy a coffee every single day. It's saying a. focus on larger issues and b. it's okay to do a little self care and a little self indulgence. I agree. But I don't think the people making the argument for spending less money on coffee are arguing against those two things. They are not talking about never going to a Starbucks. As you point out, there are circumstances where buying…
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to buy $5 lattes unless they have already socked away 15% of their income into a retirement account, have at least 6 months of salary in a savings safety fund, and generally live about 10% below their means or can manage to articulately justify it to internet strangers as somehow having gotten a lot out of it while homeless.” ― Anatole France's great, gr…
>It is not how most rich people got rich by any stretch of the imagination.
Have you read the Millionaire Next Door?
I suppose it depends how you define "rich" these days, but the data in that book seems to indicate that most US dollar millionaire households are dual middle income workers who live below their means for decades and actively save and invest the difference.
Re: Buy Yourself a Latte
#190Counterpoint: The debate is framed as "$5 a day is a waste--put it into your piggy bank every day and drink office sludge instead". I instead say that yes, the office coffee still tastes like fertilizer, but I still think $5 a day for a latte is waste because I can make some excellent coffee at my desk for about a dollar a day using an inexpensive French Press, a hand-grinder (or grinding the beans that morning at ho…
You're exchanging time for money. It's a highly common tradeoff. Prep, brewing, and cleanup amounts can work up to around $3-4 of opportunity cost for a tech professional. Not to mention, french press coffee is not quite equivalent to a latte. Also, I recommend 5 minutes steeping, personally. ;)
Eh, often hard pressed to make an argument for time considering the detour to pick up the coffee, waiting in line. Brewing at home takes mere minutes. Convenience, sure. You just pay, then drink.
Then again I see the mentality in some tech professionals wanting to eliminate every little "inefficient" use of time including food prep so they can park their ass longer. I guess it's individual.
For myself it's a mental health cost. We have a shared office but only go 2-3 times a week. The coffee shop allows me to be in a social environment away from home.