Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 724 posts

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#181

Post by crumpets »

segmondy wrote: post #111
czbond wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two questions: Why are tech company staff wanting to unionize? For the most part, aren't tech staff reasonably to well paid - with good working conditions and moderate hour expectations (say 40-50)? Management has the right at a workplace to make any decisions, whether someone in non-management sees fit. Can't people who are frustrated with the company just go pursue a position elsewhere?

Not a popular opinion, but these are usually non CS types that have flooded the fields later due to money. Not very skilled, but very entitled. The sense of entitlement is very ridiculous these days. I see folks outside the Bay asking why shouldn't they get paid the same as Bay area folks, when they want to remote from somewhere that has 1/3rd the cost of living. Or people outside the country with 1/10th the cost of…

>I see folks outside the Bay asking why shouldn't they get paid the same as Bay area folks

Pay has nothing to do with cost of living. That's a lie told by companies as a negotiating tactic. You don't magically make the company more money by being in the bay area.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#182

Post by iscrewyou »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #156
geofft wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a top performer: 1. I do my best work when my colleagues are also doing their best work. It doesn't matter how good I am at my job if I can't use the leverage of having teammates. I will be happier if the company can compensate all of my coworkers well and make them happy and hire good coworkers - both in terms of intrinsic motivation / happiness and in terms of whether the company is profitable enough to compensa…

You do best when your colleagues do the best, for sure. Do you think the union is going to help or hurt when you have underperforming or disruptive colleagues?

Union will help. Unions usually have probationary times before they start representing a new employee. For a year of probationary time, it's plenty to know if the employee is a good fit. If not, the employee can be let go and doesn't get the help of the union.

And union is by the employees, for the employees. If the person is truly disruptive and slipped through the 1 year mark, unions don't just back you up regardless.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#183

Post by AimForTheBushes »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #156
geofft wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a top performer: 1. I do my best work when my colleagues are also doing their best work. It doesn't matter how good I am at my job if I can't use the leverage of having teammates. I will be happier if the company can compensate all of my coworkers well and make them happy and hire good coworkers - both in terms of intrinsic motivation / happiness and in terms of whether the company is profitable enough to compensa…

You do best when your colleagues do the best, for sure. Do you think the union is going to help or hurt when you have underperforming or disruptive colleagues?

From my anecdotal experience working 2 months in construction one summer.. there is nothing you or management can do about a toxic coworker.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#184

Post by burtonator »

The biggest challenge we have with unions is game-theoretic.

Specifically, the issue of defection.

The company can make it very easy for users to defect or FORCE them to defect.

They can give bonuses to people not in the union (with plausible reasons for the bonuses so it's not illegal) or do what Walmart does and simply shut down the entire store in that location to prevent the union forming.

We need some way to solve this problem ...

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#185

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

eqdw wrote: post #143
maxxxxx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience the US workplace is much more hostile both ways. Either the employer will screw over the employees or the union will try screw the employer. At least in Germany it'a little more collaborative partially because of laws that give employees some say how the company is run.

It's not hostile, it's professional. I advocate for my interests, you advocate for your interests, and we negotiate to find out a compromise that works for both of us. During this process, I do not worry about your interests (that's your job), and you do not worry about mine. We trust each other to take responsibility for our own interests and proceed accordingly. I can understand why this would seem hostile to someo…

I don't understand how the union isn't basically holding the company hostage.

A company can't fire all their union employees, so if the union decides they'll only accept a deal that includes a 50% raise, what do you do?

I'm being serious here, from what I can tell it's not legal to fire your union employees. So what do you do?

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#186

Post by czbond »

longerthoughts wrote: post #148
duado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not take power that is available to you? Management certainly exercises every bit of power that they are able to. The relationship between a company's stockholders and a company's employees is part competitive and part collaborative. Ignore either at your own peril.

>Why not take power that is available to you? I see your point but at the same time this can create an adversarial dynamic between managers and junior employees, which is toxic even if junior employees get what they want. >Management certainly exercises every bit of power that they are able to. I'm a manager and my proudest moments have been those of restraint, not force. Regardless of whether or not unions can and s…

"organizations with employees feeling compelled to unionize should be hiring better managers."

This is a fantastic observation - and I believe it holds true. I've been in some very demanding technology roles, long hours, with competitive peers. A great leader is worth much more than some Union would have been (anecdotally).

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#187

Post by minikites »

tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

>It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial?

Every workplace is adversarial, it's you versus the C-suite who profit from the surplus value created by your labor. A union just evens out the bargaining power between you and them.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#189

Post by navigatesol »

tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

>It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial?

Have you considered that the adversarial workplace is the reason for unionizing in the first place?

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#190

Post by munk-a »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #164
praptak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies in general are crappy at recognizing top contributors anyway. Tech companies are no exception.

This is a problem everywhere, but it is worse when you are stuck with unionized employees. Compare public school teachers to private school teachers. Higher pay (thanks to unions) for public schools, and lower quality (thanks to unions).

I'm up in Canada where the teaching unions are actually pretty strong and the teachers are well compensated, but in the US teacher salaries are legendarily poor given the expectations placed on them and the importance of their job.

In fact, due to the extremely low salaries in either private or public schools many people who would consider teaching end up in different fields... _that_ is what is driving down the quality.

Post reply on HN