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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#181

Post by Cthulhu_ »

syshum wrote: post #143
lnsru wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western world throws insane amounts of food away: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/02/no-time-leftover... There are other real problems than plant-based diets.

That does not break down the type of food waste For example I rarely have meat-based food waste, however, I have all kinds of Fruit, and veg food waste do to spoilage. Meat is easy to freeze and preserve, it is hard to freeze a salad ;)

It's mostly down to only buying what you need / use really. Frozen vegetables are another option, they are often easily portionable and are a better choice than "fresh" vegetables (source: I used to work in a vegetable packing plant for a summer vacation job; the vegetables we packaged to be sold in shops the day after came from a big freezer / fridge, oftentimes we had to discard whole pallets because the brocolli had gone moldy. I have no idea how long that stuff had been in there, but given the amount of mold it must've been a while)

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#182

Post by Nasrudith »

EGreg wrote: post #25
jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

Government propped up fossil fuels and held back electric cars since 1910. We could have had CHOICE in how our energy is generated. Why in all this time haven’t some alternatives to non-biodegradable plastic emerged?

The thing is non-bio-degradability is a feature not a bug when you want to preserve the contents from microbes and possibly other larger things. There were even a few cases with Honda wiring based on soy leading to recalls from it attracting rats. They even tried capsaicin tape wraps and it didn't work well.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#183

Post by cobbzilla »

dalbasal wrote: post #115
ehnto wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

Commercial fishing is a lot less important than commercial hunting was 200 years ago. The sea is bigger, and the industry can switch to new species when one gets depleted (eg cod, salmon and tuna were once far more abundant) but the problems are still the problems. A fishery, like a bison herd, cannot handle the might of a modern industry. Quota systems and controls keep fisheries from immediately collapsing, but the…

(I know there are concerns with many commercial fish farming operations today) Couldn't sustainable fish farms, done right, solve this?

Tree farms seem to work, iirc the amount of forested land in the US actually started increasing in the past few years.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#184

Post by lixtra »

jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

Here is an argument about burn vs. bury: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-43120041

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#185

Post by rayiner »

cageface wrote: post #58
ehnto wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy, and meat & fish are very resource intensive. We're better off redirecting all the resources we currently waste trying to feed 8 billion people this way into sustainable, plant-based diets anyway.

Or just perfecting lab grown meat.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#186

Post by sudofail »

isolli wrote: post #85
cageface wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy, and meat & fish are very resource intensive. We're better off redirecting all the resources we currently waste trying to feed 8 billion people this way into sustainable, plant-based diets anyway.

I was vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for 7, yet I started eating meat and fish about a year ago. Here are my thoughts: - I started eating animal products again for health reason; I believe many people can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but I couldn't. It makes me unhappy, but there I am. - Similarly vegetarian and vegan for a long time, my wife started craving animal products the minute she got pregnant. And a…

Absolutely agree. I think the calls for vegetarianism and veganism can really backfire. It's not realistic to expect everyone to give up meat completely.

We should be calling for people _limiting_ their meat consumption in a way that works for them. It's far more effective to have 50% of the population limit their meat consumption than 5% eschew meat all together.

I personally eat meat about once a week, and that's something that's worked for me. I also try to source my meat and dairy from humane sources. And it's been a minimal effort. I don't feel that I've been denied meat. I can still have it once in a while, and it does not affect me in my daily life whatsoever.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#187

Post by murph-almighty »

usrusr wrote: post #127
isolli wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for 7, yet I started eating meat and fish about a year ago. Here are my thoughts: - I started eating animal products again for health reason; I believe many people can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but I couldn't. It makes me unhappy, but there I am. - Similarly vegetarian and vegan for a long time, my wife started craving animal products the minute she got pregnant. And a…

> limited consumption of animal products It would be more impactful get three people to reduce meat by 50% than to get one to reduce by 100%. Unfortunately, "meals that don't have a chunk of meat as their centerpiece but that are still far from vegetarian" does not have the same ideological zeal as veganism (speaking in the context of a western industrial background). When eating out (again: western cuisine), the mea…

> Low meat dishes seem to have a serious branding problem.

I think the way you make this work is using meat for flavor rather than as a centerpiece- a lot of noodle dishes from China do this (e.g. https://thewoksoflife.com/2014/11/dan-dan-noodles/).

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#189

Post by close04 »

Djvacto wrote: post #163
close04 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are omitting the fact that genetics plays a huge role in the success and efficiency of your diet. More than a third of East Asians have a deficiency in one of the enzymes involved in the breakdown of alcohol (aldehyde dehydrogenase). They cannot properly metabolize it. Inuits have mutations in genes that code for enzymes that desaturate carbon-carbon bonds in fatty acids. This means they can handle diets that are…

I think you're being downvoted because of the "Withdrawn statements" comment. It looks like this has been posted multiple times in the same thread, but the statement was not withdrawn.

The paper liked originally was indeed withdrawn. It was corrected and subsequently republished which I didn't notice (can't edit anymore). This being said (from the paper):

> appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets

Most people's diets are not "appropriately" planned because most people never actually consult a nutritionist. This means most of those diets miss their mark and since that diet narrows the alternatives it's far easier to lose those benefits.

And can't see anything about any disbenefits of introducing animal products in that diet in "appropriately planned" quantities. Would introducing certain amounts of animal products in your diet affect in in any direction? So would adding a moderate amount of fish in your vegad diet sabotge or improve it? Or no difference?

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#190

Post by cageface »

naasking wrote: post #178
cageface wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only supplement needed on a vegan diet is minimal amounts of b12, and that’s only necessary because sanitation kills the bacteria that produce it. The environmental footprint of a vegan diet is way lower than even that of a pescavore.

No one's disputing the footprint, they're disputing how feasible it is for all or even most people. Vegetarianism requires much more understanding and planning to ensure you ingest sufficient proper macro and micronutrients. Edit: and you need look no further than Harvard's explanation of how to become a vegetarian and choose your foods to ensure a healthy diet: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/becoming…

Eating a healthy diet takes work no matter what diet plan you follow. You're assuming a meat-based diet is automatically healthy when in fact the typical meat based, western diet is strongly linked to all of our most deadly diseases. You're going to be a lot better off on an even non-ideal plant based diet than you are going to be eating hamburgers and pizza.

I'll admit it's currently not that easy to follow a strictly plant based diet if you mostly eat in restaurants and don't live in a first tier Western city.

If you're willing to do your own shopping and mostly eat at home it's actually not only easy but really enjoyable to take back control of your health and what you eat.

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