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DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

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Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#181

Post by cheeseomlit »

rando444 wrote: post #60
wtvanhest wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, everyone's SSN should be public. Mine has already be compromised by both my undergrad and grad school. At this point, I operate under the assumption that it is public knowledge for bad actors. Hiding SSNs is false security at best. If they were public, banks would stop hiding behind "identity theft" and would start having to acknowledge that its their responsibility to confirm who they are lending money to.

The problem with identity in the USA has always been a religious problem more than anything else. All legislation aimed around allowing people to be identified by numbers has been killed due to the whole "mark of the beast" .. "can't buy sell or trade without your number" revelations rhetoric. As religion has less of an impact on people's daily lives, I expect this to change, but in the past it's been the one thing t…

I'm not a Christian, but those concerns are not without merit. It's a slippery slope to "the only way we can eliminate identity theft is to use biometric authentication via implanted chips to validate financial transactions"

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#182

Post by bobwaycott »

TheOperator wrote: post #62
rando444 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with identity in the USA has always been a religious problem more than anything else. All legislation aimed around allowing people to be identified by numbers has been killed due to the whole "mark of the beast" .. "can't buy sell or trade without your number" revelations rhetoric. As religion has less of an impact on people's daily lives, I expect this to change, but in the past it's been the one thing t…

If its primarily a religious problem why do countries less religious than the US have similar concepts? SINs in Canada, NINs in the UK, etc. etc

The parent means implementing national IDs provokes religious opposition in the US.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#183

Post by darkpuma »

tetrep wrote: post #180
darkpuma wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "All legislation aimed around allowing people to be identified by numbers has been killed due to the whole "mark of the beast" .. "can't buy sell or trade without your number" revelations rhetoric." This is easy to solve; simply make it illegal to use the identification number so capriciously. Define a narrow use-case for it, narrow enough to allay religious fears, and forbid anything other use if the ID number. Ma…

> This is easy to solve; simply make it illegal to use the identification number so capriciously. Hmmmmm, that sounds familiar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#/media/... While it wasn't law, I don't see why legislature wouldn't renege on their promise to not use a unique identifier, already conveniently assigned to all people, for identification purposes.

Yes that's what I had in mind. It worked that time too, the general public accepted SSNs.

Maybe it's cynical, but I don't believe there is any limit on how many times you can lie to the public. There's only a limit to the frequency.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#184

Post by ben509 »

throwawaymath wrote: post #136
ben509 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1933 Securities Act, 1934 Securities Exchange Act and the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 all directly address insider trading.

No, they all address illegal insider trading. If all forms of legitimate trading on material nonpublic information were illegal, then information asymmetry in the market would be outlawed. That would make it impossible to legally profit using any kind of financial research.

"If all forms of legitimate trading on material nonpublic information were illegal, then information asymmetry in the market would be outlawed."

FWIW, I'm not expressing an opinion on insider trading, just arguing that this specific claim is overly broad.

If your only relation with a company is to own stock in it, you're not an insider, but any research you do may be based on public information, but is nevertheless material and as private as you keep it.

And there's a lot of research to do. The economic fable "I, Pencil" is about the sheer number of firms that any given firm is indirectly dependent on and indirectly affects. Thus, if you see shocks affecting any upstream suppliers, the shocks are public information but your knowledge that it's relevant to the firm you're invested in is private to you.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#185

Post by ben509 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #131
ben509 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1933 Securities Act, 1934 Securities Exchange Act and the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 all directly address insider trading.

In very limited ways. For example, the 33 Act bans short-swing trading and certain specific activity by holders of more than 10% of a stock. The vast majority of insider trading enforcement is brought forth on securities antifraud and fiduciary obligation statute interpreted through extensive case law.

That's fair, but it's also generally how the modern regulatory state works: Congress lays out a rough sketch of the laws and regulatory agencies and courts hash out the details. And counting incidences of enforcement doesn't tell you where the bulk of doctrine is since someone who plainly violates the law is quickly shut down, while the authorities are forced to play cat and mouse with the ones who skirt the law.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#186

Post by gknoy »

tetrep wrote: post #180
darkpuma wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "All legislation aimed around allowing people to be identified by numbers has been killed due to the whole "mark of the beast" .. "can't buy sell or trade without your number" revelations rhetoric." This is easy to solve; simply make it illegal to use the identification number so capriciously. Define a narrow use-case for it, narrow enough to allay religious fears, and forbid anything other use if the ID number. Ma…

> This is easy to solve; simply make it illegal to use the identification number so capriciously. Hmmmmm, that sounds familiar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#/media/... While it wasn't law, I don't see why legislature wouldn't renege on their promise to not use a unique identifier, already conveniently assigned to all people, for identification purposes.

> a unique identifier, already conveniently assigned to all people, for identification purposes

One problem is that it's not unique. :)

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#188

Post by jessaustin »

jrpelkonen wrote: post #148
jessaustin wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, you could be like my uncle. His SSN is 666-66-6666. He's not particularly religious...

There’s a chance your uncle made that one up himself: “No SSNs with an area number of 666 have been or will be assigned.”[0] [0] https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v69n2/v69n2p55.html

There's a chance I made up that uncle myself... it's easier than using Google to find this information.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#189

Post by perl4ever »

AznHisoka wrote: post #98
hkmurakami wrote: post #95

Related reading: today's Matt Levine piece on how hard it is to make money even with this info. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-16/even-c...

They make successful trades 77% of the time they had insider information and 45% when they didnt. That clearly is an advantage. I would never expect a 90% success rate because of how random Wall Street is, but 77% over a period of time definitely is an advantage.

If I read it correctly, they were successful 77% of the time with inside info and 0% without, averaging 45%.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#190

Post by perl4ever »

hkmurakami wrote: post #128
zepearl wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the nice link - is this guy (Matt Levine) somehow generally "known" for some reason? I liked the articles but it's the first time I hear the name. Edit: thanks a lot for your hints/replies!

He is considered to be one of the most insightful (and humorous) finance writers today. He was formerly a Goldman Banker, and prior to this, a corporate lawyer at Wachtell, both firms having the reputation of residing at the summit of their industries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wachtell,_Lipton,_Rosen_%26_Ka...

Also a Latin teacher.
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