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The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

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Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#181

Post by yawaramin »

geggam wrote: post #163
kelnos wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that's just not knowable, I guess. And even if we could, how would we describe "hard"? And is "trying hard" even necessarily sufficient? I would guess: no. Say we could map out every decision Chan made to get where he is. Let's also say we could quantify exactly how "hard" he worked. To me, it follows that some of those decisions were likely pivotal in his success, even if they didn't seem like it at th…

I would bet money on his choices being moments he learned what to not do. He failed over and over learning what to not do. Through persistence and dedication he succeeded when others simply quit and call it not possible. That ... I would bet money on.

What do you call, other than luck, his surviving the reckless, deadly stunts that he did–that stunt professionals in fact refused to do? On the other side of the coin–what do you say to the stunt performers who didn't survive–they didn't try hard enough?

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#182

Post by _hardwaregeek »

karmelapple wrote: post #67
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." I'd generalize it to: "Great craftspeople have to kind of like the part of their craft that is unpleasant to 99% of the population." Someone who excels at playing violin, writing computer software, public speaking, etc., generally does not find the "unpleasant" part to be "tiring", "boring", or "work". Instead, it's just part of the overall experience, which is a n…

Yeah, I'm a little skeptical of CS schools that try to shelter their students from suffering. While schools should obviously not attempt to break students, there should be a reasonable crescendo of difficulty within the program. Because, well, software development can be hard. Students that don't like the hard parts don't like software development. This doesn't mean insanely hard "weed-out" classes, but simply projects that reflect the difficulty and demand of the real world.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#183

Post by MisterOctober »

mac01021 wrote: post #126
jdietrich wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always terribly exciting to watch, but Mayweather's pathological aversion to getting punched is certainly effective.

Never thought I'd hear an aversion to being punched described as pathological.

Indeed -- taking into account the recent revelations about CTE and related issues, Mayweather's "I believe in taking as little punishment as is possible" approach seems to me well-considered.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#184

Post by yawaramin »

vinceguidry wrote: post #170
Vicktree wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

liking something is important but you have to ask why they liked it in the first place. The reason for their desire matters. Professional football player might "like" football even though it takes a heavy physical toll (brain damage, joint damage, etc.) but notice the people becoming professional football players are usually from disadvantaged neighborhoods who see the sport as one of the few ladders they can use to…

> The reason Jackie Chan took all of those risks and "liked it" is because of his economic status. I think you have this exactly backward. He took the risks not knowing they would make him an international star. I submit that he only could have done that if he enjoyed not just the fruits, but the process. Several times he describes volunteering for things others wouldn't do. You wouldn't do that if you weren't at lea…

So you're saying that Jackie Chan did extreme stunts–that stunt professionals refused to do–early in his Hong Kong career, because he thought to himself, 'This will make me an international star'? And not because 'This will prove my worth to this director and the audiences'?

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#185

Post by Cpoll »

NeoBasilisk wrote: post #155
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

>If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can. This is a terrible mindset to have.

"If I can win the lottery, anyone can" indeed. Does that technically fall under survivorship bias? (Which isn't to say that Chan _just_ got lucky, just that it's a combination of luck, skill, upbringing, disposition, opportunity...)

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#186

Post by Insanity »

selimthegrim wrote: post #175
bsder wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lack of respect Chan gets in the west is a travesty IMO. I don't think he gets lack of respect. Directors have studied his stuff for years. Anyone who has watched his movies has been impressed for years. However, let's face it, the average person didn't have any inkling who he was until Rush Hour. As for Jackie Chan's work, the problem is that you get injured . No stuntmen in their right mind would do the kind…

He broke his back in the first (or second depending on how you count) Operation Condor movie.

They stand among my favourite movies of my childhood. I would rent get my dad to rent the tapes multiple times!

But yeah, the injury is scary, amazing how he kept doing his stunts after that

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#187

Post by grecy »

Cpoll wrote: post #185
NeoBasilisk wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can. This is a terrible mindset to have.

"If I can win the lottery, anyone can" indeed. Does that technically fall under survivorship bias? (Which isn't to say that Chan _just_ got lucky, just that it's a combination of luck, skill, upbringing, disposition, opportunity...)

You forgot the three most important things, which are 10,000 times more important than the ones you listed.

Hard work, hard work and hard work.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#188

Post by satori99 »

Jackie Chan, in addition to being a world famous film star, is also an Honorary Professor of Tourism and a teaching member of the faculty at Hong Kong Polytechnic University.

I know this because he shares an office there with someone I know. I initially didn't believe it when I was told, but Wikipedia backs the story up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan#Academic_career

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#189

Post by vinceguidry »

yawaramin wrote: post #184
vinceguidry wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason Jackie Chan took all of those risks and "liked it" is because of his economic status. I think you have this exactly backward. He took the risks not knowing they would make him an international star. I submit that he only could have done that if he enjoyed not just the fruits, but the process. Several times he describes volunteering for things others wouldn't do. You wouldn't do that if you weren't at lea…

So you're saying that Jackie Chan did extreme stunts–that stunt professionals refused to do–early in his Hong Kong career, because he thought to himself, 'This will make me an international star'? And not because 'This will prove my worth to this director and the audiences'?

No, I'm saying he did it because he enjoyed it.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#190

Post by pmarreck »

karmelapple wrote: post #67
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." I'd generalize it to: "Great craftspeople have to kind of like the part of their craft that is unpleasant to 99% of the population." Someone who excels at playing violin, writing computer software, public speaking, etc., generally does not find the "unpleasant" part to be "tiring", "boring", or "work". Instead, it's just part of the overall experience, which is a n…

> Great craftspeople have to kind of like the part of their craft that is unpleasant to 99% of the population

Fixing bugs and refactoring. They have their perks.

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