Live data from Hacker News

Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

nbcnews.com

181–190 of 236 posts

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#181
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do CS and IT stand for - joke ;)

Chocolate Shake and International Treaty.

I believe the US has unilaterally backed out of the International Chocolate Shake Treaty, to the consternation of our global allies.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#182
post #45

Only tangentially related, but I am continually astonished by the absence of any sort of social norms surrounding cigarette butt disposal. I have (otherwise environmentally conscious!) friends who smoke, and I've personally witnessed them flick their cigarettes into gutters and on streets. As a serious question, without judgment: are there any smokers on HN who can explain the phenomenon?

When I used to smoke I did not litter butts when I could avoid it, but they are so disgusting (they stink, they make your fingers stink, if you wrap it in some paper or plastic and put it in your pocket your pants will stink) that you just want to get rid of it. Most things are easier to get rid of because you can put them in a bag or something until you come across a trash can.

>they are so disgusting (they stink, they make your fingers stink, if you wrap it in some paper or plastic and put it in your pocket your pants will stink) that you just want to get rid of it.

This is very true and highlights how addictive nicotine is. We’re willing to light these things on fire and breathe it into our lungs but are disgusted by the remnants and feel a compulsion to immediately discard it.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#183
1)

The most effective portable ashtray I saw, was when it was handed out on a festival: they were the classic analog camera film canisters, they close really airtight.

To adress the dumping of cigeratte filters not buds, why not simply put ever larger return deposits (like many nations have on certain glass bottles etc) on the filters? If your pack of cigarettes cost say $20, but $30 dollars extra for the filters, then smokers will keep their filters and turn them in when they buy their new pack. OK, a lot of people behave irrationally when drinking while smoking, but some of the present smokers will still be cheap enough to collect all the filters that people leave in the local ashtray instead of in their portable ones... The difference is between $50 or $20 for the next pack of cigarettes. Use the same per filter price for loose filters for the people who roll cigarettes.

2)

I am addicted to smoking, and smoke cigarettes without filter. As far as I understand both paper and tobacco biodegrade. On the street I throw the butts (not filters!) in the gutters, preferentially through the grid straight into the sewer.

I have had many discussions with other smokers, and there is a guaranteed subject that returns: whenever the taxes and hence prices of tobacco products rise a fraction of the previous cost. Just like the smokers are addicted to the cigarettes, the tobacco companies and the government are "addicted to the smokers" or rather: exploit the smokers.

Over ten years that I smoke the price has more than tripled perhaps quadrupled (Belgium, Europe). The justification behind increasing the prices is always to encourage people to stop smoking. The discussion I have with these other smokers whenever the price has risen always ends with the same conclusion: they don't want us to stop smoking, they just want to extract more money by using small increments, and letting us get accustomed to the new price. We always reach the conclusion it would be better to not let the price rise for a couple of years and then double the price of tobacco products. A lot of people would stop simply because they don't economically agree to the new price, and many who want to stop but have a hard time because their friends are still smoking would have an easier time because it would synchronize our efforts to stop smoking. Obviously that will lead to a substantial loss of income to both tobacco industry and government, who are sponsoring various cancer treatments (both tobacco related and unrelated cancers) with the income from tobacco products. The "beautiful" aspect is that in contrast to non-addictive products the lobbyists for tobacco companies don't even need to bribe government, since government has been co-opted through taxation.

If we really wish to clear up the cigarette filters, stop smoking, and lower future health care costs we should look at the "half-life" of cigarettes/euro, and keep the price constant but double it every such half-life. That would really give all smokers a memento mori to reconsider our habits, ... but similarily it would also force tobacco industry and government to kick off the lucrative income from smokers!

As a smoker (but otherwise a very stubborn person) I can tell you we don't have the spine to quit, certainly not on the basis of a 5% increasee in price! Whack us with a price doubling! Then nearly all my friends who smoke, and unknown people I may meet at performances, events, bars would stop in synchrony.

3)

Wasn't the mass introduction of filters at least partially a marketing ploy minimize the health concerns as they started to rise in public perception? How effective are filters really? Are those smokers who were intimidated into buying more expensive and "healthier" cigarettes by both industry and family (indirectly still industry) really the cause of the current widespread pollution of these filters? Or were it the marketers, similar to all the pollution of plastic water bottles? A marketing ploy in the quest for money, with the side effect of polluting nature?

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#184

Only tangentially related, but I am continually astonished by the absence of any sort of social norms surrounding cigarette butt disposal. I have (otherwise environmentally conscious!) friends who smoke, and I've personally witnessed them flick their cigarettes into gutters and on streets. As a serious question, without judgment: are there any smokers on HN who can explain the phenomenon?

Former smoker here and guilty of throwing many butts on the ground even though I find any other form of litter unthinkable. When I was much younger I believed that cigarette butts biodegraded in a couple years. No big deal, right? I distinctly remember reading this on a sign at a campsite when I was about 18. Turns out, that's an ideal scenario and butts can take up to 10 years to break down naturally, and even then…

Don't expect current butts to break down - the fibers are plastic, now.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#185
post #135
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah i thought it was biodegradable and thought they would melt away.

They certainly ain't no snoflakes but they do decompose within a few years. Compared to a plastic bag or straw are relatively benign.

"95% of cigarette filters are made of cellulose acetate (a plastic), and the balance are made from papers and rayon."

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#186
I have something of a rule re friends - if I see them doing something I would simply never, ever do (for ethical reasons) then whether it's a small thing or a big one; I end the friendship. I know a much bigger ethical lapse will be coming. When I've bent this rule, as I did for one fellow I liked a lot who tossed his butts wherever, I found out a couple of years later that I'd have been much better off dropping him out of my life the first time he tossed a butt.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former smoker here and guilty of throwing many butts on the ground even though I find any other form of litter unthinkable. When I was much younger I believed that cigarette butts biodegraded in a couple years. No big deal, right? I distinctly remember reading this on a sign at a campsite when I was about 18. Turns out, that's an ideal scenario and butts can take up to 10 years to break down naturally, and even then…

Thanks for explaining, and I really don't mean to kick you while you're down here, but even if butts did degrade in 2 years, that means they're lying around a long time for birds or animals to eat or choke on them.

I think this is really the issue when addressing these kinds of pollution problems. It's hard for people to prioritise their actions because they don't understand the relative importance of the consequences. When they hear "problem X is mitigated by Y" they think the issue has been solved, even though there are several other much more serious problems that they didn't know about. Quite frequently I have found that well meaning environmentalists complicate matters by focusing attention on issues that are less important. Being motivated to make a positive difference and being educated on the best courses of action is not necessarily correlated unfortunately. When you throw bad actors into that mix, it gets so confusing that even the most determined and educated can get muddled.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#188
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly ain't no snoflakes but they do decompose within a few years. Compared to a plastic bag or straw are relatively benign.

"95% of cigarette filters are made of cellulose acetate (a plastic), and the balance are made from papers and rayon."

Cellulose acetate degrades in between 18 months and 10 years depending on environmental conditions. A plastic bag can be there in 100 years.

> While it was initially believed that CA was virtually non-biodegradable, it has been shown that after initial partial deacetylization the polymer's cellulose backbone is readily biodegraded by cellulase enzymes. In biologically highly active soil, CA fibers are completely destroyed after 4–9 months.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#189

Only tangentially related, but I am continually astonished by the absence of any sort of social norms surrounding cigarette butt disposal. I have (otherwise environmentally conscious!) friends who smoke, and I've personally witnessed them flick their cigarettes into gutters and on streets. As a serious question, without judgment: are there any smokers on HN who can explain the phenomenon?

I think it's because the butt is usually made to resemble some natural material like cork. Since the rest of it (paper, tobacco, and ashes) is easily degradable, I think the natural assumption is the butt is degradable as well, and the notion that every other smoker seems to think so isn't helping. So to answer the question: I suspect it's simply a lack of information. As a data point I'll add that I stopped deposing…

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has been successful in this. I haven't tried educating again after a couple signal failures, concluding that people willing to harm themselves also don't mind harming others, or oceans. Probably what I should do is ask every smoker whether, out of curiousity, they know the butts are not biodegradable, since they're plastic. That sounds less like a lecture.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#190
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly ain't no snoflakes but they do decompose within a few years. Compared to a plastic bag or straw are relatively benign.

"95% of cigarette filters are made of cellulose acetate (a plastic), and the balance are made from papers and rayon."

Interesting re soil - but most of the small plastic in oceans blows in from coastal cities. Then again, I've never seen a smoker bury their butts.
Post reply on HN