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Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

181–190 of 328 posts

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#181
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, why can't a car do the same thing? Replace all the stop signs with yield signs.

Do you see any scenario in which a 4-way yield would be more dangerous than a 4-way stop?

A yield sign implies that you must be prepared to stop if necessary anyway. Which means going at a speed where you can brake to 0 before being in the middle of the intersection, so maybe 20ft at best

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#182
post #177
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody follows these rules. This is exactly the reason why I ride my bike on the sidewalk even with a bike lane that is divided from the automobile lane with a white line. I don't care what laws exist, I am not risking my life riding in a bike lane that is really seen as a large automobile lane.

I've twice been mauled by pedalbikers on sidewalks. Not a fan of your plans.

I've been hit by a car in the bike lane. Not a fan of that either.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#183
post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

Another perspective, from a skateboarder: In New York skateboarders are banned from sidewalks and have to skate in traffic. I've got a solid push and hold my own among bikes and cars but, regardless, get all kinds of flack from drivers. When I take the to sidewalk due to dangerous road conditions pedestrians are simply far too unpredictable, scared, and oblivious to permit me on board so I reluctantly walk. You know who I never see walking when they're on the sidewalk? Scooter riders, electronic and otherwise.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#184
Are any of these electric scooters worthwhile for hilly commutes?

I live about a mile from the closest train stop, and currently I walk to and from because the entire way is steep coming back, at 10% grade.

My gut tells me a scooter would need to be unreasonably powerful to work in this area.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle is the hardest part and cyclists hate it. Source: Commuting to work on a bicycle for years.

I’m a cyclist too but I just don’t see how cities could be built in such a way that avoids stop signs unless everything is a roundabout. It’s annoying to stop on a bike; doesn’t mean I am justified in being lazy about it.

bikelanes on the level with the sidewalk which also merge into the crosswalks at intersections. For big intersections with traffic lights you can have under/overpasses for pedstrians and bicycles instead, which also allows more aggressive traffic light cycles for the cars.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think this is a transition. What we're likely seeing is M&A people caught up in the hype and trends. In some ways, it's worth spending some amount as a hedge against something happening, but I don't believe these scooters will represent any meaningful change ... personally I think they are kind of a fad. The logistics, cost, narrow use cases of all of it just don't work out well enough. Truly - what % of…

I agree. Besides taking an Uber approach to sidewalk limitations, I don't really see any use case for this that a moped or bike doesn't do better.

Honestly this just may spur people to use bicycles, or moped style scooters as are common in Europe.

The type of people to use these scooters are exactly the types that would likely use a bike. Or a Vespa.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#187
post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I've owned both a scooter and skateboard for 7 months. I disagree, you can ride a scooter on a sidewalk safely and I need to do it from time to time. Of course, I don't prefer it. But it's pretty easy to do safely and it shouldn't bother anyone if done correctly. The rules I follow: 1. Go much much slower. 2. Stay far away from other people and blind corners. 3. Always assume a person is about to make an erratic move…

> I disagree, you can ride a scooter on a sidewalk safely and I need to do it from time to time. Of course, I don't prefer it. But it's pretty easy to do safely and it shouldn't bother anyone if done correctly.

Keep it simple. "Can" but people won't. There is reason in this post ... but the law should remain that riding on sidewalks is illegal.

"Trusting" strangers on scooters to slow down is unwelcome heart-burn, as a pedestrian. "Will they slow down for me? Will they move off to the side? Will my dog stray into their fast-moving path? Will my dog, who freaks out for any person-riding-on-vehicle, freak out as this scooter crawls past? Do I need to pull the neck-collar on my dog hard so he stays sufficiently close to my feet as the person riding on the vehicle passes?"

None of this thinking should be necessary for a pedestrian. Keep the law set. Stay off the sidewalks.

Go further, require license-plates for scooters, to track infringement of riding on the sidewalk. Report scooters dragged into the lane. There is something fundamentally "not right for a metropolitan" about these smallish, easily misplaced vehicles.

Skip Scooter https://i.imgur.com/K6RuVzE.jpg

More Skip https://i.imgur.com/ZkdndG1.jpg

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#188

I talked to a self-driving PM recently and he said that self-driving cars are a extremely expensive and complex way to reduce cost per mile urban transit/taxis and admitted scooters might be a much cheaper way to accomplish the same thing.

The biggest issue for urban transit is safety. I don't think scooters can be a valid replacement for cars until the streets are redesigned or all the cars are self-driving. I used to bike to work until a couple close calls. I don't feel comfortable riding a bike or a scooter unless its a dedicated bike lane away from parked cars so I don't get doored.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#189

All of the commenters saying e-scooters shouldn't be allowed on sidewalks are right. Sidewalks in most densely populated US cities are too narrow and busy to safely allow a human gliding along at 15 mph within ~2 ft of a doorway where another human may be exiting, or past blind corners. The bigger issue is that e-scooter parking is fundamentally broken right now. Despite being told not to, users still park them in th…

Agreed 100% on the sidewalk-riding. The other day I was outside a restaurant waiting for a table. I moved back one step to let some people by and felt something brush my coat. It was some idiot riding one of those powered rental scooters downhill. 15 MPH at least, and given that it was downhill, maybe more. Two steps back and I would have been in the emergency room.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#190

There I was, sitting at the busy intersection of Sacramento and Ashby in Berkeley, when I saw two boys that couldn't have been more than 8-10 years old fly by on Bird Scooters. And I thought to myself, some kid is going to die. And lots of people do die on these things: https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+scooters+deaths These scooter companies suck, I wish they'd all go away. If they weren't all going for hypergrow…

I understand your frustration, but that’s a remarkably similar response that people had to automobiles first being introduced. Not to imply you’re a Luddite clinging to your horse drawn carriages or anything. Just that these concerns aren’t new. The unfortunate reality is that nothing has solved the last mile problem for public transportation as well as these scooters have. Say you want to go to the store two miles a…

There are streets for cars.

Scooters are often driven on sidewalks, illegally.

There is no viable enforcement options - cops do not have the easy means to stop scooters going arbitrary directions - and there are no license plates for scooters, yet.

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