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Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

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Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#181

Post by nchie »

throwaway487548 wrote: post #134

It seems that the main problem with Rust is that it has been grown up not from the CS and PL theory fundamentals , like ML, or Scheme or Erlang or even Go, and it is obviously not a small, clean language everyone loves and appreciates as being beautiful. In other words it is just little better than C++, which is a crap. If a language could be grown from ML (Ocaml) roots (like Scala) instead of C++, it could be much s…

While Rust competes with C++ by sharing a lot of goals, it is _way_ closer to ML than C++ is.

If it was developed with the goal of being an ML language, my guess is that a lot of what it does wouldn't be possible and it'd end up being another language very similar to OCaml.

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#182

Post by emmelaich »

village-idiot wrote: post #99
dbcurtis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rust is the answer to the question "can we have speed, correctness, and expressiveness in one language?" My biggest gripe is that they left out readability. I like the semantics of Rust, and appreciate the performance and the transparent memory model. I am extremely excited to try Rust on an embedded project. Bur honestly, the syntax is gruesome. Coming from Python, Rust looks like two rabid gerbils had a war dance…

Python is pretty to look at, but I hate working in white space sensitive languages. If I have to have another argument about tabs vs. spaces I am going to toss my monitor out the frickin’ window. Also, it makes autoindent in Emacs worse.

There is no such thing as white space insensitive language.

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#183

Post by mbo »

olavk wrote: post #155
mbo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's much more likely that Julia will be stealing Python's dinner, rather than Rust.

Django is not going to be rewritten in Julia. Neither is Linux going to be rewritten in Python. Different languages have different domains. Some of these comments seem to think all languages is competing in the same domain as if Rust is a direct competitor to Julia or JavaScript.

The context of the comment I replied to was that Python was fantastic glue code _for scientific computing_. Julia won't won't impinge on Django's usage share.

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#184

Post by lmm »

GolDDranks wrote: post #108
hyperpallium wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "can we have speed, correctness, and expressiveness in one language?" Didn't ocaml already answer that question? Since ocaml hasn't dominated, it seems something more is required... What has rust got beyond that?

Threads and predictable runtime model. (No GC)

Threads are an implementation technique, not a user requirement (at least they shouldn't be).

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#185

Post by otabdeveloper1 »

ilovecaching wrote: post #58

Rust is the answer to the question "can we have speed, correctness, and expressiveness in one language?" My company has been running Rust in production for awhile now, and it's exceeded every expectation. It's fast, it's safe, and it's so productive it's hard to find a reason to use anything else. We've also found that the learning curve is, in our opinion, a bit overstated. We've ramped up several new grads on Rust…

A shallow learning curve and cute compiler messages are the least of your problems when doing C++-caliber software.

The 'small, easy language for ignorant developers' niche certainly exists, but it's already taken by Go.

Rust currently provides no benefit over (modern) C++ for the problems where using Rust or C++ makes sense. (Though perhaps Rust will make it easier for layman developers to learn Rust and then transition to C++.)

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#186

Post by juststeve »

chimpburger wrote: post #61
ram_rar wrote: post #22

Rust has definitely made me a better systems engineer overall. But, its not a language I can use for web dev. I hope, it gets easier to integrate rust into python in future.

https://rocket.rs/

nah actix web and diesel

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#187

Post by andy_ppp »

otabdeveloper1 wrote: post #185
ilovecaching wrote: post #58

Rust is the answer to the question "can we have speed, correctness, and expressiveness in one language?" My company has been running Rust in production for awhile now, and it's exceeded every expectation. It's fast, it's safe, and it's so productive it's hard to find a reason to use anything else. We've also found that the learning curve is, in our opinion, a bit overstated. We've ramped up several new grads on Rust…

A shallow learning curve and cute compiler messages are the least of your problems when doing C++-caliber software. The 'small, easy language for ignorant developers' niche certainly exists, but it's already taken by Go. Rust currently provides no benefit over (modern) C++ for the problems where using Rust or C++ makes sense. (Though perhaps Rust will make it easier for layman developers to learn Rust and then transi…

Interesting! I don’t know how modern C++ deals with multi threading and shared memory etc.? Care to fill us in on the state of the art and how it’s as good as rust?

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#188

Post by kieckerjan »

Rust's main attraction for me (coming from a C background) is that it allows you to do threading reasonably confident that you will not enter a world of pain after a simple mistake. In an ever more concurrent world that is a major plus.

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#189

Post by iopq »

cies wrote: post #46
richardwhiuk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also complexity - managing an order of magnitude more instances is more hassle.

But "more hassle" by an order of magnitude that gradualy reduces when growing the number of instances.

But the cost keeps growing, especially when you need to go from 50 servers to 100

Re: Rust can be difficult to learn and frustrating, but it's also very exciting

#190

Post by UK-Al05 »

pjmlp wrote: post #133
ilovecaching wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were a lot of good ideas over the years (especially in Plan 9) and Go is really just a modern, polished revision of those ideas glued together. Plan 9 is an operating system. If you're referring to goroutines, CSP is completely unrelated to any of the work done at Bell Labs. That was Hoare. Go also kept a ton of terrible ideas, like nil, void (interface{}), and default mutability. > Go is a _systems_ language…

People are doing OS research in Go, and Fuchsia core components like the TCP/IP stack are written in it, regardless of what the HN crowd thinks where Go should be used. https://github.com/mit-pdos/biscuit https://github.com/ycoroneos/G.E.R.T Last version of Plan 9 was actually Inferno, which HNers keep forgetting about, which used Limbo for userspace code. Limbo uses the channel syntax later adopted by Go.

People do os research in c#
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