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Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

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Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#181

Post by foepys »

RileyJames wrote: post #168

When I upgraded my MacBook Air, I decided to try switching away from Apple. Primarily because the new MBP’s & Air’s were expensive, and all the new feature which made them expensive were things I didn’t want or need. I also wanted to give Linux another shot. I went for a Dell XPS, and while there are things I don’t like (primarily keyboard & trackpad) I’ve got used to them. (Keyboard still shits me). But, when the mo…

For this reason MacBooks aren't really business devices in my opinion. What kind of business is okay with the service Apple provides? You have to send one employee to the Apple Store (if there is even one located near you), maybe get a replacement device, maybe wait for 2 weeks for it to return? This is so much more expensive than buying Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. with on-site support. On top of that you often get repair manuals for the slightly bulkier models.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#182

Post by michaelmrose »

gumby wrote: post #178

You know they also sell machines without the secure enclave bonded to the substrate. If you don't want that feature you can buy one of their other machines -- or someone else's. I can find plenty of reasons to dump on Apple, but I do believe their commitment to customer privacy is pretty strong (even before considering that they are a large corporation). And I say that even though I don't believe, say, their commitme…

If they make more money from locking it down why would they not do it with all their devices?

If they show you can earn 10% more revenue in an area with slim margins why wont others follow in their footsteps.

The only real solution is to make this strategy illegal.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#183

Post by pokemongoaway »

theonemind wrote: post #138

These videos created by a third party Apple repair shop convinced me to ditch Apple: https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos?view=0&sor... He goes into the poor practices they use in manufacturing in general that literally every other manufacturer gets right. They might use under-sized capacitors to save room on the board. The first "unibody" they advertised had two aluminum parts glued together. Some of th…

Louis is awesome!

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#184

Post by kevingadd »

RileyJames wrote: post #168

When I upgraded my MacBook Air, I decided to try switching away from Apple. Primarily because the new MBP’s & Air’s were expensive, and all the new feature which made them expensive were things I didn’t want or need. I also wanted to give Linux another shot. I went for a Dell XPS, and while there are things I don’t like (primarily keyboard & trackpad) I’ve got used to them. (Keyboard still shits me). But, when the mo…

I had a dell XPS laptop for work a long time ago, and it was one of those desktop replacement models with a desktop GPU. I was extremely unlucky and it happened to have a doomed GPU model - bumpgate, I think - so it would typically fail after a few months.

Dell came to my workplace during work hours, on a day's notice, 6 different times, to replace the GPU for free because it was under warranty.

I've had some bad experiences with Dell in the years since (their monitors have absolutely horrible firmware now so I can't recommend buying them anymore) but their warranty service was great then and is still pretty great now. Cross-ship RMA for things like monitors is a great perk.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#185

Post by hrktb »

askmike wrote: post #173
andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

I was literally yesterday in the shop of an official reseller in Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia, there is no Apple Store here). I have non critical problems with my Macbook Pro and asked if they can fix it (including the keyboard problem for which there is a repair program). "We will have to take it in for repair, this will take at least 14 business days."

At this point can’t you ship it to Apple ?

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#186

Post by muse900 »

lathiat wrote: post #147
tokyodude wrote: post #146

I'm actually a little disappointed in Apple's service considering the cost of their hardware and the cost of AppleCare. Back in the 80s and 90s many companies excellent service was you'd call customer support, they'd express ship you a replacement for free and you'd send back the broken item. They would take your credit card number just in case you didn't send the broken item back but otherwise it was on their dime.…

They generally do a better job if you have a nearby Apple Store (an official not a third party one). Unfortunately if you don't have one of those you end up a little worse off. On the plus side, most brands don't have stores in the majority of non major cities. Apple Does. So they're ahead of a lot of brands in that regards. You can get repairs usually done same day or within 1 or 2 days in the worst case if you can…

I think the main issue here is the availability of repairs, if my sony ps4 breaks down, I most likely won't take it to sony as they will take 3 weeks to send it back. I'll prolly take it to an individual shop and get it done within a day.

Also the other downside e.g for iphones is that apple is not selling genuine screens... you broke your screen on your $1500 iphone? cause thats how much it costs in the EU... you will get a knockoff screen if you want to get it done in a day, if you want you can wait 4-5 weeks for them to get back to you, unless you live in london, paris, berlin etc.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#187

Post by jakobegger »

dabockster wrote: post #74

Can the T2 chip be accessed via a publicly accessible API? Or would some reverse engineering be required? Since the third party check is software based, it's theoretically possible to write a piece of software that could either overwrite the flag on the T2 chip or man-in-the-middle spoof the return value to relevant applications. EDIT: I'm also curious to find out whether it's the OS or EFI that's performing the chec…

Isn't the whole point of the T2 chip to prevent these kinds of attacks?

The T2 starts the boot process and verifies the integrity of the system (including OS) and you can't flash the T2 without a digital signature from Apple.

Unless someone finds a serious flaw in the system, or one of Apple's signing keys is leaked, I don't see how you'd circumvent it.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#188

Post by lamontcg »

threeseed wrote: post #57
msie wrote: post #2

Well, Apple lost its soul years ago.

That makes no sense. Go have a look at the original Mac 128k. They were borderline impossible to even open.

Go have a look at an Apple ][+ -- expandability, hackability and an open architecture were all attractive selling points.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#189

Post by Crosseye_Jack »

gumby wrote: post #178

You know they also sell machines without the secure enclave bonded to the substrate. If you don't want that feature you can buy one of their other machines -- or someone else's. I can find plenty of reasons to dump on Apple, but I do believe their commitment to customer privacy is pretty strong (even before considering that they are a large corporation). And I say that even though I don't believe, say, their commitme…

Ok so wipe the customers keys in the T2 chip and/or disable id instead of disabling the whole device. Remember when Apple would disable your phone if you swapped the home button with a (iirc) Error 51 message and how they had to walk that back after enough backlash?

I’m all for privacy, but there are ways to offering both privacy and repairability.

> If you don't want that feature you can buy one of their other machines -- or someone else's.

But this information is only coming to light after the products have been put into the market. Apple don’t share this information before you purchase their stuff. What percentage of people who purchase their products know beforehand that the only people who will be a Lee to repair their laptop is Apple or who Apple deem fit?

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#190

Post by DubiousPusher »

muse900 wrote: post #169
andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

Totally agree, and the more I think about it, the more I feel that apple products have started becoming inaccessible to me too. From what I understand they want to protect their brand by building quality and repairing with quality as well. Issue is that they are lacking on employees for what they want to do. A week ago I was in the apple store in London, a guy next to me bought one of their new flagships through o2 a…

I don't normally give salty replies on HN but I have to say no. This is incorrect.

> Issue is that they are lacking on employees for what they want to do.

That is not the problem. The problem is many of us do not accept the world in which everything, down to the hardware we touch is just licensed to us.

Some of us live to hack, crack and diy. We are jealous of the right to repair, tinker and transform.

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