IQ Matters Less Than You Think • Hacker News Board

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#181

Post by owens99 » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #93

cm2187 wrote: post #89

The title is a bit misleading. The study is basically comparing the path of the top 1% to the top 2% of the IQ distribution and arguing that it doesn't matter that much in term of extraordinary achievements (nobel prize, etc). If you compare the top 20% to the bottom 20% of the distribution I bet there will be a strong correlation to professional sucess.

And there's also probably a big difference between the top 0.01% percent and the top 1%. The difference between the top 1% and top 2% isn't very important for most types of talent. Being in one of those categories for athletic talent, for instance, wouldn't get you into a professional sports league of any kind.

Surprisingly, many findings show there is not. Malcolm Gladwell explains this well in his book Outliers.

https://www.honorsociety.org/articles/trouble-geniuses-malco...

“Gladwell cites studies done by Arthur Jensen that indicate the IQ level needed to successfully attend and graduate from undergraduate college is 115, after which Jensen believe IQ becomes relatively unimportant. For comparison, Albert Einstein, a well-known and commonly agreed upon genius, had an IQ of 150. Studies by Liam Hudson indicate that, ‘a mature scientist with an adult IQ of 130 is as likely to win a Nobel Prize as is one whose IQ is 180.’”

He gives the example [paraphrasing from memory] of an individual with an IQ of 170 who was so intelligent it impaired his ability to relate to normal people and hold a job.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#182

Post by bjoli » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #141

sureaboutthis wrote: post #73

I started to write a much longer response but don't have time. My IQ was tested at 142 some decades ago and, from what I've read, would be higher cause the tests have changed. I was always very successful in my jobs but, when it came to starting my own business, I needed a lot of active encouragement or I would give up too quickly. However, in two cases, a business clicked with me, for some reason, which made me exci…

> and, from what I've read, would be higher cause the tests have changed. That doesn't sound right - the Flynn effect causes IQ tests to get harder over time. Also, I believe IQ reliably deteriorates with age.

Iq is standardised on a population level, where age is an important parameter.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#183

Post by majidazimi » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

baccheion wrote: post #176

majidazimi wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmmmm, in case you are a middle eastern immigrant tackling a Ph.D. in the US, it takes around one year (including security check) to take a visa just to get into the US. :D Meanwhile your German rival has arrived 11 months before you and probably had applied for an internship by the time you arrived. I can't stop myself comparing people. :D

A Ph.D. in what? Top 2% of that field is usually accessible within a year.

I wasn't opposing you. I just tried to mention, how easy it is to loose to your rivals by just being born in a wrong country.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#184

Post by gnarbarian » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #151

mikestew wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few people with >130 IQ and they all have... No, those are just the ones you know about. You know, the kind that tell people that they have a high IQ. You probably know more people with IQs > 130, you just don't know that you do because they're well-adjusted, and they don't feel the need to tell you about their high IQ.

You're probably right. On the other hand, almost all of my friends have anxiety, depression or executive disorders, but I know the IQ of a few of them.

That's interesting. Why do you think most of your friends a psychological disorder? Are they self diagnosed? Is this a case of "birds of a feather flock together"?

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#185

Post by ummonk » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

It is well earablished that iq tests don’t work that well until adulthood. E.g. identical twins raised seperately have very different iq test scores during childhood but the scores converge in early adulthood.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#186

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

Shekelberg wrote: post #155

Funny how HN is full of people with >120 IQ claiming that IQ doesn't matter. If that's really true, than why is pretty much everyone here in the top 10-15% of the population? Where are all the <100 IQ people here claiming to have successful careers in the tech industry despite their IQ scores? Remember, the average IQ is 100 by definition, so roughly half the general population is <100. What are the odds of this happ…

> Funny how HN is full of people with >120 IQ claiming that IQ doesn't matter. If that's really true, than why is pretty much everyone here in the top 10-15% of the population

Everyone here probably isn't.

People who have a near-average (on either side) IQ are less likely to have it tested, and those with an average or below IQ less likely than those above the average to talk about their score.

Consequently, people who talk about their IQ score tend to have a higher than average score.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#187

Post by Dirlewanger » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

unstuckdev wrote: post #178

Dirlewanger wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but IQ is still one of the best predictors of success.

But what is the best predictor of IQ?

Off-the-cuff, I'd probably say either a stable and supportive family environment and/or above-average family wealth, in which case one could just cut out the IQ middleman and say those are the best predictors.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#188

Post by ummonk » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:51 PM UTC

madeuptempacct wrote: post #117

majidazimi wrote: post #100

Well, I like to think persistence matters more but getting into top 1% of everything requires more than determination. 1. Going from bad to good requires x amount of effort/persistence. 2. Going from good to best requires 1000x amount of effort. When you've put 800x amount of effort, you'll realize this harsh bitter fact. You have already given up on your hobbies, family, social life, ... and you are still considered…

Very much this - average genes, hard work, and sacrifice can generally guarantee upper middle class (barring accidents). Basically, all you need to get there is being a good cog in the machine. That is to say - you come in groomed, you do your job, you study or take night classes, you don't spend your money on having a life, you don't make mistakes which come with fun. Eventually, you will get to your $100,000/year a…

You seem to be assuming there isn’t any genetic component to hard work.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#189

Post by ultraforce » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:51 PM UTC

Alex888 wrote: post #92

Intelligence doesn't matter much when you have it. It matters quite a lot when you don't. Like in basketball - being 2.50m tall doesn't mean you'll beat everyone on the court. But being 1.50m pretty much guarantees you're out of luck.

Then perhaps a test that measures intelligence better than the IQ test which is known to not be the best would be better at evaluating the situation.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#190

Post by cc-d » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:54 PM UTC

account2 wrote: post #28

I wonder how many IQ test misclassify intelligence? Feynman had a score of 125 and many people here have a high score than that. I bet no one here with a higher score of 125 are actually smarter than Feynman though. I think this is just one of many possible such examples where IQ test miss the purported people they were suppose to capture. Feynman’s score wouldn’t even qualify him for MENSA. I wonder how many IQ exam…

Feynman is a notable exception to the trend. Using a single exceptional result as evidence for decrying a trend is foolish.

IQ tests obviously do not account for __every__ variable which we cumulatively call "intelligence", but IQ is heavily correlated with the ability to succeed at tasks society classifies as "smart people stuff". The difference in intelligence between two individuals is much less pronounced if both individuals are already two standard deviations above the norm. But if you were to compare two individuals, one who is one standard deviation below, and the other one above, you would observe a clear difference in 'intelligence' between the two. Even in this comparison, there will be outliers, but the outliers are not statistically significant.