Live data from Hacker News

Let Teenagers Sleep In

nytimes.com

181–190 of 317 posts

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#181
post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

[deleted]

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#182

This is nothing new. What's more irritating to me is that these articles generate lots of conversation, but not one school will adjust its hours. Put up or shut up.

They passed a law in CA a few weeks ago. All urban public schools must begin no earlier than 8:30 a.m.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#183
post #118
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re really off about that. Our night vision is actually pretty good, especially if you’ve used it for every night of your life. Fire’s clearly been with us for long enough to be a factor, in addition. I’m against the hypothesis though, if only for the fact that energy levels peak shortly after waking up - “why we sleep” discusses this a little. That book also suggests the variety of sleep patterns exists for evolu…

>Our night vision is actually pretty good It isn't good enough to see what's going on when it's actually pitch black, which it is most of the time at night. > Fire Lighting a fire at night in the place where you're having sex seems like a pretty good way to get discovered. > Having a multitude of waking/restful cycles in a group kept our ancestors protected with a nearly round the clock group of protectors - who ever…

> It isn't good enough to see what's going on when it's actually pitch black, which it is most of the time at night.

You mean in a thunderstorm, maybe? Or a fog bank?

On a clear night, even with no moon, humans can see quite well. Since rod vision is used, it is difficult to do fine work (reading, sewing, soldering, ....), but just walking around outside is no problem.

If you want to see the night for yourself, try spending a few nights camping out somewhere away from artificial lighting. Don’t bring along any of those terrible “white” LED flashlights – they completely clobber night vision. It takes about a half hour for eyes to fully adapt to the dark.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#184

I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager and probably had diagnosable delayed sleep phase disorder. Rules made by 55 year old early risers that only need 6 hours of sleep a night who have become school officials are just cruel and unusual punishment to a chunk of teenagers out there. In a better world there could be a class action lawsuit to make this stop--but its still considered okay to promote "early to be…

>>I'm never going to become an early riser.

FWIW: I used to feel this way before I entered my 40’s.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#185

I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager and probably had diagnosable delayed sleep phase disorder. Rules made by 55 year old early risers that only need 6 hours of sleep a night who have become school officials are just cruel and unusual punishment to a chunk of teenagers out there. In a better world there could be a class action lawsuit to make this stop--but its still considered okay to promote "early to be…

6:30AM is just some other city's 11:30AM... the difference in between is just light exposure, food consumption, and activity (the three big zeitgebers).

Unless you think you'd never resynchronize after moving across the world, it's pretty obvious that your wake and sleep time would have to be a lot more malleable than you suggest.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#186

I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager and probably had diagnosable delayed sleep phase disorder. Rules made by 55 year old early risers that only need 6 hours of sleep a night who have become school officials are just cruel and unusual punishment to a chunk of teenagers out there. In a better world there could be a class action lawsuit to make this stop--but its still considered okay to promote "early to be…

>>I'm never going to become an early riser. FWIW: I used to feel this way before I entered my 40’s.

I'm 46, still not an early riser. I sometimes wake up early, usually due to a bit of stress, but that just messes me up worse since I can't shift my schedule backwards (jetlag going West-to-East is hellish for me). I have become more 'rigid' in my sleep schedule which is better for fitting in with the rest of society than the phase I went through in college when I was on a 26-hour sleep schedule and every 2 weeks I'd rotate my sleep schedule around (generally trying to time the period when I was sleeping right in the daytime for weekends although I'd skip classes on either side). But that rigidity means that its hard to nap (and of course if I nap a bit too long in the day then I wind up staying up until 3am, so usually if I get up too early I wind up having to push through with sleep dep all day and then just hope it doesn't happen the next day -- but the stress itself from not getting enough sleep can cause me to get up early again in a bit of a viscious cycle).

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#187

This is nothing new. What's more irritating to me is that these articles generate lots of conversation, but not one school will adjust its hours. Put up or shut up.

They passed a law in CA a few weeks ago. All urban public schools must begin no earlier than 8:30 a.m. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

Yes, but then it was vetoed. See my other commment, or follow your link and click on status to see the Governor’s Veto Message.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#188

I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager and probably had diagnosable delayed sleep phase disorder. Rules made by 55 year old early risers that only need 6 hours of sleep a night who have become school officials are just cruel and unusual punishment to a chunk of teenagers out there. In a better world there could be a class action lawsuit to make this stop--but its still considered okay to promote "early to be…

6:30AM is just some other city's 11:30AM... the difference in between is just light exposure, food consumption, and activity (the three big zeitgebers). Unless you think you'd never resynchronize after moving across the world, it's pretty obvious that your wake and sleep time would have to be a lot more malleable than you suggest.

No it isn't, unless you keep a completely unnatural and very strenuous artificial light environment. Not just any light source either. This is worse than people who can't eat most foods and have to have an extremely picky diet, because at least they can do that anywhere and can create a stash of food. To expect this of anyone is ignorant and cruel, IMO.

> Unless you think you'd never resynchronize after moving across the world

The synchronization is to the sun and its light, not to human clocks. That it seems to be the same is because the latter mimic the former, not the other way around. So you can't just use an arbitrary clock, not with any reasonable effort.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#189

I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager and probably had diagnosable delayed sleep phase disorder. Rules made by 55 year old early risers that only need 6 hours of sleep a night who have become school officials are just cruel and unusual punishment to a chunk of teenagers out there. In a better world there could be a class action lawsuit to make this stop--but its still considered okay to promote "early to be…

>I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager Did you try going to sleep earlier? Who said you couldn't have 9.5 hours of sleep? The other thing you probably would have benefitted from is an afternoon nap (if you were unwilling to go to bed a 9pm). To blame others (those evil 55 year old early risers) is to deflect your own accountability. By the way, I was an early riser in high-schools and I preferred to get out…

Yet that compromise affects some people much more than others, which is the entire problem, and why some people go so far as to claim discrimination. I do agree that naps are an underutilized solution, but they don't really address the issue.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#190

I used to need 9.5 hours of sleep as a teenager and probably had diagnosable delayed sleep phase disorder. Rules made by 55 year old early risers that only need 6 hours of sleep a night who have become school officials are just cruel and unusual punishment to a chunk of teenagers out there. In a better world there could be a class action lawsuit to make this stop--but its still considered okay to promote "early to be…

Taking pills just to follow a "normal" schedule set by other people sounds truly awful.
Post reply on HN