Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#181

Post by rixrax » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:58 PM UTC

Does the 'Ensure that Apple products last as long as possible' assume wrapping new iPhone into one of those cases?

I don't know if I am alone here, but I find it counter intuitive that to protect my new shiny, I would have to cover it with more or less ugly case to avoid it breaking when I eventually drop it? And since I don't [use cases], maybe consequently, I seem to break them at about ~11 month intervals (although last one, iPhone SE, was lost by accidental submersion - with this at least the new Xs's promises to be slightly better).

TL;DR; I am rooting to be able to buy an iPhone someday that will tolerate my 'normal' use as purchased without any covers or other add-on protections.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#182

Post by apazzolini » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

cryptos wrote: post #3

That is all very well and I really appreciate Apple's long support for iPhones, but Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries in its phones and even in notebooks. A battery is a wear part and should be easy to replace. Every thing else leads to more waste.

For what it's worth, I replaced the battery in my 2013 Macbook Pro last week, and it was quite easy.

I used dental floss to saw through the adhesive and then adhesive remover to clean up afterwards. I didn't have to remove a single part from the laptop.

I recognize that a phone battery is more difficult, but firmly bonded batteries are really not an insurmountable hurdle.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#183

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #137

jsjohnst wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries Have you disassembled an iPhone or even watched a video on it? There’s a pull strip which makes the battery pretty simple to release. It’s not like it’s superglued to the case.

I have, which is why I know how poorly those pull strips work. They often break off leaving the battery firmly attached and it needs to be heated/pried off (which can be quite dangerous). The pull strip was a nice addition, but they need to improve their strength so they cannot break.

Retail employees have to do the same procedure; they're instructed to pry the battery if the strip breaks. So I don't think this is a particularly difficult procedure.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#184

Post by rauhl » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

the_solenoid wrote: post #107

beloch wrote: post #12

You know what helps products last longer and reduces waste at the same time? Repairability . The repairability of apple products is so poor that even Apple can't fix most of their own products without replacing surprisingly large portions of any given Apple device. End user repairability has been utterly neglected. Disassembly is frequently impossible without causing damage, and components such as batteries are frequ…

I think if you try to extrapolate your or my willingness to repair something to the overall market for the iphone, it would be an error. What are the tradeoffs for a user replaceable battery? (really, this is something we should all know if we are arguing FOR replaceable batteries - maybe it's not the best idea? I would wager 99%+ of sales go to people who never want to touch the innards of a phone. And anecdotally,…

You raise a good point about tradeoffs: it probably is true that most people really neither want nor need a replaceable battery.

But here’s another tradeoff: if one is producing phones for the great portion of the market which needs or wants disposable devices, then one doesn’t get to claim that one is designing durable devices.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#185

Post by tmaly » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #12

You know what helps products last longer and reduces waste at the same time? Repairability . The repairability of apple products is so poor that even Apple can't fix most of their own products without replacing surprisingly large portions of any given Apple device. End user repairability has been utterly neglected. Disassembly is frequently impossible without causing damage, and components such as batteries are frequ…

I agree, Repairability would contribute to the products lasting longer. However, the cost of repair even without Repairability does affect things. I have a 2013 MacBook pro that randomly crashes. I suspect a hardware issue, but the cost to try to repair it is approaching 60-70% of the cost to just buy a new machine.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#186

Post by sevensor » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #179

CameronBanga wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that happens today every day with the iPhone? There are plenty of professionals, both authorized and unauthorized by Apple, that can do nearly any repair necessary on an iPhone.

I agree with Cameron here, people, for whatever reason, just don't use the repairmen. They're out there. They're everywhere, but the repair shops are nowhere even close to being as busy as the Apple store. (Or even the AT&T store for that matter.) I think people have been successfully conditioned to view phones as disposable/replaceable. It would take an almost Sisyphean marketing and conditioning effort to change th…

> people, for whatever reason, just don't use the repairmen. They're out there. They're everywhere,

The reason they're everwhere is that people do take their phones in for repair. Mostly battery replacement and cracked screens. The town I live in manages to support three repair shops that I know of.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#187

Post by jrs95 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

sbuk wrote: post #162

jrs95 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are Apple products difficult and expensive to repair, but if you've done something with your device that Apple doesn't approve of and voided the warranty they may even refuse to repair it for you. You're essentially not allowed to perform iMac Pro upgrades on your own -- this voids the warranty. Only authorized third parties can do this. It's kind of ridiculous given that the design of the machine ensures th…

> "that Apple doesn't approve of and voided the warranty..." That's how warranties work.

Yes, but generally this is about getting discounted service. In the case of the iMac Pro in particular, Apple wouldn't accept money to do the repair at all with a voided warranty.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#188

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:20 PM UTC

asendra wrote: post #131

basch wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they prevented spontaneous reboots. if you dont think apple was right, and the tech press was engaged in yellow journalism, you are wrong. apple was mitigating a very specific hardware failure.

Yes and no. the solution to the problem was the correct one, they just forgot one important detail. TELL THE USER! As a result, plenty of people, (including myself) noticing their two year phone starting to slow down quite a bit, decided to upgrade to the new and shiny model, instead of just replacing the battery, because who would have known that was the problem?!

Well, they did, in the software update notes for the version that introduced this change. I do agree that they could (and should) have been quite a bit more prominent though.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#189

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #33

sitkack wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Apple no longer supports a device, the boot loafers should be unlocked so they can be reflagged. This should be a requirement for all hardware.

At least let me roll back to old software version. I have 4S which is unusable and locked on iOS 9. It's not like it's secure today, so just let me get back to iOS 6 and have at least fast phone.

This opens the door to rolling back devices once you've waited for them to become obsolete and then reading their contents, though.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#190

Post by cryptozeus » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #12

You know what helps products last longer and reduces waste at the same time? Repairability . The repairability of apple products is so poor that even Apple can't fix most of their own products without replacing surprisingly large portions of any given Apple device. End user repairability has been utterly neglected. Disassembly is frequently impossible without causing damage, and components such as batteries are frequ…

Imo I think its the opposite. I haven’t had a need to change battery or repair anything in my SE for few years now. Its so “reliable” that i dont even think about it. Reliability is what is more important.