People start hating their jobs at 35 • Hacker News Board

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#181

Post by randysavage » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66

EZ-E wrote: post #52

About work and happiness : the more I think about the reality of being a full time employee, the more I start to believe part-time is actually the right way to work and be happy. I see little reason to spend something like 70% of waking hours commuting and working for someone else's profits if you can afford to do less. I've become pragmatic and realized the company I'm I work in is just a tool I use to make money wh…

Boy, I wish I could find part time work that paid even a quarter of what I make supposedly working full time. The reality of course is that I'm at most actually working 15-25% of that time and the rest I'm just piloting a desk and being available for people to pick my brain. Then there's the health care issue to consider, at least for US residents.

Don't let the healthcare issue scare you. I've been on high-deductible Marketplace plans for the past few years, having gone through a pregnancy and delivery with complications, among a few other health concerns.

As long as you have the cushion to cover the high deductible (~$6000), there's probably not much to worry about. I had the same deductible at a previous employer, so the current situation feels identical to me.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#182

Post by bitL » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:40 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #24

I think its because through experience people have figured out a lot of unspoken things about what its really like being an employee. They have figured out that its much more about connections and office politics than hard work. They have figured out that there is really no job security, and they could be one layoff wave away from unemployment. They have figured out that its much more about face time and spending lon…

Even owners/founders get discarded these days... It's full on Game of Thrones on all levels.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#183

Post by mlevental » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:44 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #101

sbarre wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like an HNer who is incredibly lucky to be working in a field that has never-ending demand, and is probably good at their job. Just a heads up that the majority of people are not in your/our situation with regards to their employment.

Yes, being in an in-demand field makes work life easier. Being good at your job makes work life easier. Typing and drawing on a whiteboard is easier than mopping floors and cleaning toilets. I don't know why every time a discussion about work or employment comes up we feel the need to have these tautological discussions about how some people have it easier than others. It's only a matter of time until we get a sub-th…

>I don't know why every time a discussion about work or employment comes up we feel the need to have these tautological discussions about how some people have it easier than others.

the same reason that this thread is posted and re-posted at all. both of these things are cultural memes: the people complaining about work and the people relishing work. nothing in any of these threads is ever novel.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#184

Post by Dave_TRS » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #24

I think its because through experience people have figured out a lot of unspoken things about what its really like being an employee. They have figured out that its much more about connections and office politics than hard work. They have figured out that there is really no job security, and they could be one layoff wave away from unemployment. They have figured out that its much more about face time and spending lon…

This list reminds me that employment simply a trade off, and a fair deal that most are willing to accept with eyes wide open.

You want a steady paycheck immediately, so you sign up for what you hope will be a sort of friendly "master-slave" relationship where you do a good enough job to not get fired, accept the office politics, accept that someone else gets all the upside, and give up a large chunk of life instead of pursuing your own business, hobbies, spending more time with family, etc.

This should not be a surprise to anyone, but I suppose its easy to be overly optimistic as a young person and become frustrated when reality sinks in.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#185

Post by nwatson » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

wernsey wrote: post #110

vfc1 wrote: post #24

I think its because through experience people have figured out a lot of unspoken things about what its really like being an employee. They have figured out that its much more about connections and office politics than hard work. They have figured out that there is really no job security, and they could be one layoff wave away from unemployment. They have figured out that its much more about face time and spending lon…

Funny, round about the time I turned 35 I stumbled upon Erik Dietrich's Defining The Corporate Hierarchy [1] blog. It cynically divides corporate workers into sociopaths at the top who step on other people to get where they are, idealists in the middle who don't realize they're being stepped on and think they'll eventually get to the top through hard work, and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning…

This "Defining the Corporate Hierarchy" is a re-hash of the (acknowledged) original, the "Gervais Principle" by Venkatesh Rao. The Gervais Principle is brilliant.

"The Gervais Principle" series home: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#186

Post by jasonkester » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:49 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #146

jasonkester wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why move to management then? Software Developer is the best gig imaginable right now, in pretty much any dimension you can measure. - Senior level pay is pushing $500k for employees, ( and higher for consulting) - Pretty much any gig can be remote - Hottest job market in history - Lots of fun work to be found if you don't want to go the BigCo track So yeah, why fight all that stuff you list on that path when you can…

> Senior level pay is pushing $500k for employees, ( and higher for consulting) At a handful of elite, highly-competitive companies. > Pretty much any gig can be remote The defense, health care, finance, and embedded sectors would beg to differ. Also, can be remote often does not equal "allowed to* be remote. > Hottest job market in history "In history" is too strong, but it is definitely a hot market (in most areas)…

So to be clear, in response to me asking why a developer in this market would intentionally put himself into a disadvantageous situation, you have chosen to list off a bunch more disadvantageous situations a developer could put himself into.

I’m willing to concede that one can find a second tier company willing to pay sub-market rates for boring work in a cubicle, if one chose.

But again, I’ll ask why you would do that to yourself when there are such better options?

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#187

Post by hnisgroupthink » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:51 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #24

I think its because through experience people have figured out a lot of unspoken things about what its really like being an employee. They have figured out that its much more about connections and office politics than hard work. They have figured out that there is really no job security, and they could be one layoff wave away from unemployment. They have figured out that its much more about face time and spending lon…

It's funny how this is said on HN while at the same time another top thread is trashing crypto.

Hint: Crypto is the thing that saves us from this. We aren't using it properly.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#188

Post by jasonkester » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122

wernsey wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, round about the time I turned 35 I stumbled upon Erik Dietrich's Defining The Corporate Hierarchy [1] blog. It cynically divides corporate workers into sociopaths at the top who step on other people to get where they are, idealists in the middle who don't realize they're being stepped on and think they'll eventually get to the top through hard work, and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning…

> and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning, do their work, and find meaning in their lives elsewhere, like family or hobbies. How do those pragmatists deal with the fact that, summing job, commute and sleep, over 2/3 of their lives is not part of the purpose?

Personally, I went down the path of “pragmatist contractor”, working short, 3-6 month gigs and taking most of the year off to do that other stuff that gives my life meaning.

The cool thing about being a developer is that we can live a long time on a quarter of our salary. And the cool thing about contracting is that they pay you twice as much to do it in short bursts than they would to do it full time.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#189

Post by nikofeyn » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

Radim wrote: post #104

nikofeyn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let the other guys stress office politics and fear for their job if they take vacation. You're the guy who knows what this job market is like, and that you have options. as someone currently job hunting, i feel this is overly optimistic. the job market is extremely conservative, so if you have a strange background, be prepared for the long haul. this is extremely stressful as no one seems to care where you have wor…

Try walking in the employer's shoes: "can this person learn what we need them to learn?" is notoriously difficult to assess. While the risk of making a bad hire is tremendous (deadly for smaller companies), the upside's lukewarm (hypothetical loyalty). The only safe way to see if a person can do the job, is for them to do the job, pretty much. I'm speaking from painful experience: we also used to hire based on potent…

i am not advocating hiring purely on potential. and of course i view it from the employer's point of view as well.

you simply can't hire well if you ask what amounts to puzzle questions in interviews. it doesn't address what a person does know. so in my opinion, an interview should be about finding out what a person knows, and in the event that it doesn't overlap with what the employer true needs, then some extrapolation or further digging is needed.

however, even when a person's skills do overlap with the needs (whether the employer knows or it or not), it is my opinion that much of the overlap is often ignored (architecture, organization, perspective, personality, design skills, api philosophy) in favor of the more "hardcore" stuff (algorithms, data structures). we all know that even in the with the most efficient algorithms, software can be a mess if employees lack the former qualities. but software that is well designed can get away with less efficient algorithms except in extreme cases and niche contexts.

tbe problems faced in a software company are rarely of the form "tell me the big-O behavior of this algorithm". rather, it's much more about how to manage large amounts of complexity, reducing complexity, designing flexible architectures, well-defined APIs, etc.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#190

Post by drukenemo » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

nwatson wrote: post #185

wernsey wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, round about the time I turned 35 I stumbled upon Erik Dietrich's Defining The Corporate Hierarchy [1] blog. It cynically divides corporate workers into sociopaths at the top who step on other people to get where they are, idealists in the middle who don't realize they're being stepped on and think they'll eventually get to the top through hard work, and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning…

This "Defining the Corporate Hierarchy" is a re-hash of the (acknowledged) original, the "Gervais Principle" by Venkatesh Rao. The Gervais Principle is brilliant. "The Gervais Principle" series home: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/

The Gervais Principle is brilliant, indeed. It manages to explain aspects of the show that lead to its success, whilst also providing an in-depth and raw description of the corporate world.