Seems like companies with "toxic cultures" can actually be extremely successful.
Six Months at Riot Games
181–190 of 272 posts
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately, it's often suppressed by those who are offended because they feel speaking up jeopardizes their job or acceptance with coworkers. Look how much is quietly endured in this very anecdote. Cases like this exist, where managers are subsumed into the culture (or passively even actively foster it), but more common is behavior that's increasingly tolerated because nobody wants to speak up because of the cultu…
There's a subset of users out in full force bravely downvoting anyone who sticks up for her or who dares to suggest that sexism might be an institutional, culturally widespread problem. Same reason this article went from the front page to the sixth in three hours. Don't worry about it.
That's some crazy conspiracy-theory level shit happening... it was #1 a couple hours ago with 80ish votes... now ~215 and you're right, it's dropped off to the 6th or 7th page! Is it getting flagged a lot? Why would that happen in a few hours?
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#183wow, I would expect such behavior from teenage gamers, but I'm surprised to see it reported among (presumably adult) game-devs. what is perhaps even more surprising is that they seem to somehow be able to cooperate enough to deliver a undeniably popular game. don't get me wrong, I don't doubt for a second that what Meagan says is true. I am simply surprised they manage to produce anything at all in such a culture, le…
> I am simply surprised they manage to produce anything at all in such a culture, let alone a hit game. they are lucky, largely. there are enough people who put in just enough work to keep all things happening and there is roughly (my estimate, dont hold me accountable) 50% who are just there doing nothing. you could not do this at amazon or other performance focused companies because it would be obvious after very l…
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Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kay. What are the odds that some HN commenters are going to solve the same problem that has been an active priority for years of the people in the field? I can’t speak for Valve or Riot, but at S2 it was a concerning issue. There’s just no good way to do it when the people involved are actively malicious. If you think there is, get ready to have your community collapse around you as everyone complains about unfair ba…
I absolutely appreciate the scale of the problem, and the adversarial nature of peer reporting. My day job has those same characteristics. Millions of games per week * 30 minutes per game * avg lines of chat per minute = manageable w/ a proper streaming architecture Especially when you have access to a massive, perfectly-scaled, distributed edge compute system . (i.e. running minimal, performance-optimized models on…
You're quite cocky. That's not an insult. I think if you cut your teeth on this problem for a couple months, you'd look back on this comment with some mixed feelings.
When a system is inherently toxic, there is no way to make it not-toxic short of coming up with a different substance. We can't make nuclear waste pure just because we wish it were. This is a very similar situation to this particular type of game. When it's a team game, and you rely on people who aren't doing their job, and you're separated by distance, it brings out the worst in you.
The problem isn't chat. If it were, it would be solved already, for the reasons you point out. The problem is the people. When someone doesn't like someone else, they will find a way to ruin their game while bypassing your censors. And yes, you can ban some of them, but not most of them, and not when most of the community acts like this. Which they do. Which you can't understand unless you go play the game for a bit.
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Who thrives while blindfolded? Those people that solve Rubik's Cubes while blindfolded, maybe?
I'm not sure that's thriving. They can do it very well, but the blindfold doesn't improve their performance.
I don't even understand why the blindfold analogy is even useful or relevant to the entire discussion. It's just adding another layer of complexity to an already complicated issue.
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a subset of users out in full force bravely downvoting anyone who sticks up for her or who dares to suggest that sexism might be an institutional, culturally widespread problem. Same reason this article went from the front page to the sixth in three hours. Don't worry about it.
That's some crazy conspiracy-theory level shit happening... it was #1 a couple hours ago with 80ish votes... now ~215 and you're right, it's dropped off to the 6th or 7th page! Is it getting flagged a lot? Why would that happen in a few hours?
The gamergate crowd, I'd assume. Normal for this sort of story, unfortunately.
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#187Seems like companies with "toxic cultures" can actually be extremely successful.
Why is that a surprise? "Toxic culture" in relation to Riot and Uber is basically defined as a "sexist bro-fest" and women being allowed to work the same jobs as men is a relatively new thing (historically speaking) and thus is still being fought on many fronts.
Also look at e.g. Japan where women in the workplace are generally treated quite badly. There was a thread on HN yesterday or the day before which reinforced this trend.
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#188wow, I would expect such behavior from teenage gamers, but I'm surprised to see it reported among (presumably adult) game-devs. what is perhaps even more surprising is that they seem to somehow be able to cooperate enough to deliver a undeniably popular game. don't get me wrong, I don't doubt for a second that what Meagan says is true. I am simply surprised they manage to produce anything at all in such a culture, le…
> I am simply surprised they manage to produce anything at all in such a culture, let alone a hit game.
They produced a hit game about a decade ago, as a far, far smaller and probably less dysfunctional company. Beyond maintaining it, they don't seem to have done much of note since.
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, you would appear to be right. I wont argue the contrary. still, I had not expected it.
So, in tech, do people not go to strip clubs anymore? Like, what's the culture now? Are all interpersonal relationships now formalized into an algorithm? Do people not get into actual fistfights at the office anymore?
> So, in tech, do people not go to strip clubs anymore?
Worked in the industry for the last 15 years or so (in Ireland). Never heard of this. I'd think it'd be a HR matter if someone suggested it in most decent companies.
Re: Six Months at Riot Games
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why shouldn't it be the default male group behavior (for some ages and environments) to discuss women? Is it that trying to sleep with women is immoral or that considering their looks is immoral or that discussing it is immoral? I guess the core way I disagree with modern culture is that there's this idea that women are either viewed as objects or as humans. It's kind of obvious that they're both, if you say that wom…
None of the ways in which women were discussed was respectful. That's the difference. You're talking about hypothetical respectful objectification, which just isn't a thing.
It's only not a thing because you've defined it as such. You can make the rule that "commenting on a girl's looks or whether you could get with them is disrespectful" and then the loophole is closed, but my argument is that that's not a truthful or helpful way to organize the world.