The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.” • Hacker News Board

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#181

Post by prolikewh0a » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

Djvacto wrote: post #102

rayiner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expenditure of public money on an endeavor should not be driven by romantic notions like whether something has "essential soul." Tax money is a scarce resource. Money that's spent on libraries is tax money that's not available to offer better lunches to needy children. That's the calculus. Our county library system gets $22 million a year in tax dollars to service 2.4 million visits. Could Amazon meet those needs mor…

According to politifact[1], education spending accounts for just 3% of all government spending (mandatory and discretionary). Using libraries as the target for cuts so that we can feed the school-children, and citing logic, is ignoring a lot of other much more 'logical' choices we can make first. Military spending (16%), or Health spending, which is a whopping 28% because of our horse-by-committee system here in the…

Education is a wonderful return on tax investment that a lot of these people claiming "we spend too much on it" don't take into account.

Just a quick example: How many of these libraries allow poor/low income/homeless to learn new skills or use their free internet to find jobs they wouldn't otherwise be able to find, in the end becoming tax paying contributing members of society?

They are an invaluable community resource that absolutely returns what goes into it.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#182

Post by pravinva » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

Can someone explain why a librarian needs to study library science,if the primary job of libraries today now is to act as a community center and a place for people in trouble to get help. Maybe they should hire people who are social workers

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#183

Post by kasey_junk » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #139

Spooky23 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a fundamentally broken society today where rent-seekers want to break it further. No libraries would never be invented today. People like Carnegie who thrived in the industrial revolution recognized that and understood that education and social evolution was the path to prosperity and peace. When he studied recent history in his day, he probably pondered the decades of chaos and suffering kicked off by the…

> No libraries would never be invented today. They did reinvent them, but in the spirit of the times they're mostly located in neighborhoods that are already more educated, more wealthy, and already have public library access. https://www.treehugger.com/culture/little-free-libraries-rai...

Is the idea that “book boxes are replacements for libraries” widely held?

I have one and that idea seems insane to me. The book box to me is a nice landscaping feature, a place to drink coffee with my neighbors, a signal about my politics, a way for us to unload books & my attempt to get rad comics to school kids. I’d never correlate it to a public lending library.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#184

Post by jedberg » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #134

geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

> librarians (at least in that system) deliberately avoided keeping long term records of what people are reading, to safeguard privacy rights. Are you sure that's true? I mean, my local library (like most, I'm sure) has a fully digital checkout log which keeps a pretty decent amount of state for active records. A pretty reasonable architecture, given the size (small) of the system, would simply keep this data around…

I just checked my own library login, and it looks like they keep 18 months of checkout history and then purge it (or at least it is no longer available to me after that point, which means it is no longer available to the librarian because we share the same interface).

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#185

Post by cdubzzz » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

prolikewh0a wrote: post #132

cdubzzz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also often serve as local community centers of sorts. The public libraries in Seattle are an amazing thing. My wife goes to "kids play time" with our ten month old son at a couple of different libraries every week. And we can also bring him in to the kids play area any time and take the kids area books on the honor system. It's a really great way to interact with other kids until we start using day care or he…

The Capitol Hill branch of Seattle Public Libraries was the first Library I had been to in probably 20 years and I fell in love with the entire system. It made me read much more than I was in the past and the free events and learning they have are amazing. It is an enormous benefit to the citizens of the city, as well as the low income/poor who can charge their cell phones or use the internet so they can keep up with…

Cool! Didn't know about Lynda.

You can also get free tickets to a lot of local museums: https://www.spl.org/programs-and-services/arts-and-culture/m...

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#186

Post by dralley » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

l9k wrote: post #141

sidlls wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free (except for the cost of bandwidth/internet access, including devices), instantly (unless internet service is poor or inconsistent or both), and anywhere (that has internet access), you mean. There's nothing improved about the argument, it's just obfuscated better.

Compare internet to library: Free: Transportation to go to your library (2x train ticket, or car + gas): minimum ~$5 / day so $60 a month, plus library card if not free Instantly: ~30 minutes to go, 30 minutes to get back home, depending on where you live. Worst internet connection need a few seconds. Anywhere: you have to physically go to the one library and hope you find the book you're looking for. Nowadays you ha…

Are you dense? You ignored all of their points.

A homeless person won't have an internet connection or a computer.

A poor person won't necessarily have a computer.

Internet in some rural areas is not just slow, but also spotty.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#187

Post by zouhair » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

Oh well, we live in a world where people willingly and happily give all their privacy to a private entity just for the privilege to take a cab. So the future is grim.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#188

Post by prolikewh0a » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

cdubzzz wrote: post #185

prolikewh0a wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Capitol Hill branch of Seattle Public Libraries was the first Library I had been to in probably 20 years and I fell in love with the entire system. It made me read much more than I was in the past and the free events and learning they have are amazing. It is an enormous benefit to the citizens of the city, as well as the low income/poor who can charge their cell phones or use the internet so they can keep up with…

Cool! Didn't know about Lynda. You can also get free tickets to a lot of local museums: https://www.spl.org/programs-and-services/arts-and-culture/m...

If you haven't checked out the Living Computer Museum down in SoDo, it's an absolute MUST. SPL provides free tickets to it :)

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#189

Post by s73v3r_ » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #75

Hate the title. Something is either a good enough idea (or entrenched enough idea) to withstand disruption. Or it's not. If it's not... it sort of deserved to be replaced by something better. Libraries tend to be a good idea. That said... I haven't been to one in a decade. Not really sure what's changed in that time, hopefully they offer free wi-fi... and hopefully there aren't a row of creepy bums watching porn on t…

That's not necessarily how it works. If those who are trying to "disrupt" things have more money or more influence, which many times they do, then they get their way, despite what most people would want.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#190

Post by geebee » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

jerkstate wrote: post #6

When I was a young child, the library was a place for me to go to sit on a beanbag and read childrens books for hours while my mom studied for her masters degree. Now 2/3 of library patrons are homeless or struggling with addiction, and some parents may not wish to leave their children unattended in such an environment. I don't think Amazon has the answers but I see a natural tension between welcoming vagrants and ma…

That was a downside of the angle this article took. It makes the case for libraries on the grounds that they offer a place for addicts and homeless to be safe and sheltered and get basic support in accessing services. That's valuable, but it makes a library sound like a place where social workers deal with poverty and other social ills and field questions about how and where to get help. And while many people would support this, they'd support it in the same way they'd support a homeless shelter or government program to provide assistance for low income immigrants who speak limited English. I really don't want to come off as knocking the value a library adds here, those are worthy contributions. But overall, I think it does give a very limited impression of how libraries are valuable to the community overall.

I'm encouraged by the stores people have left about the role the library functions in their own community. I bring my kids to the branch libraries in San Francisco regularly, and I'd like to reassure people that they are generally safe and clean places for kids and other members of the community.