American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage • Hacker News Board

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#181

Post by wool_gather » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

narrator wrote: post #46

erikpukinskis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how we have had such economic growth. We use our own population as a testbed where we disintermediate all of our own cultural support systems so that everything must be hired out. Food, transport, entertainment, self concept, family, all of it has been reformed in the U.S. over the last 100 years to replace community labor with commercial relations. This means we get first dibs on these new industries (Softwa…

The reason that everything is so not integrated is because of the American culture of containment. You have very very different kinds of people living in close physical proximity who often want nothing to do with each other. Think East Palo Alto and Palo Alto for example, especially in the 90s when East Palo Alto had the highest murder rate per capita in the U.S. Nowadays, physical proximity means less and less. Rela…

Wow, just one short leap from cars to a kids-these-days rant about Tinder?

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#182

Post by st26 » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:32 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #144

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, malls are dying, and they're almost certainly not paying enough for the value of all that empty parking. Land value tax!

The dying malls are mostly in less affluent and more rural areas where land isn't in especially high demand. That's certainly the case with the one fairly near me.

Folks on this board might be familiar with Valco, a mall which has been dying for thirty years. Smack in the middle of Cupertino, which no-one would describe as less-affluent or more-rural.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#183

Post by dsnuh » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

stretchwithme wrote: post #89

dsnuh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those barely capable give up and take cabs, then explain my morning commute. ;) Seriously though, I don't see truly autonomous vehicles unless we acheive general artificial intelligence. I don't see that happening in my lifetime or my children's, but obviously I am not an optimist. I don't know that driving skill will correlate with desire to drive or own a car. I think getting average Americans to give up their p…

Easy to explain your commute. We don't have cheap automated cabs yet. People can't chose an option that they don't have.

My point is that I don't think many people would take that option even if it were available. I know I wouldn't, unless the costs to own and operate a private car went up drastically, and even then, I see it as more of an augmentation than a replacement, i.e. maybe I own a single car instead of two, and use cabs for most trips.

There are some realities I think get overlooked. For example, I have a family of six, plus a dog that can't be left alone. How do I go about getting where I need to go in a fast and convenient way? Let's say I can't afford to live in the dense city center, and like most people, I live in the suburbs. Barring some huge shift in politics, infrastructure, and major advancement in AI, what is my motivation to give up my minivan?

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#184

Post by st26 » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

burfog wrote: post #3

It is highly misleading to point out that "In Des Moines, for example, there are 18 times as many parking spaces per acre as households". Well sure, commercial areas don't have households but they still need parking. Not even questioning the numbers, which might be carefully picked, I come to the opposite conclusion. To me, "In Seattle, the parking occupancy rate downtown is 64 percent." means that there is very litt…

A business is also impacted when it doesn't have its very own stoplight to help people turn into the lot. Thus some cities wind up putting in stoplights every few hundred feet, in some areas.

Congratulations, you've just created an unsolvable traffic light network, and magicked all-day gridlock out of thin air.

This is a multivariate optimization problem. We need to consider the repercussions of heavily over-provisioning parking.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#185

Post by eatbitseveryday » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

jasonmp85 wrote: post #13

daviator88 wrote: post #7

It's no wonder Seattle's garages often sit empty, a parking space goes for minimum of $4 per hour

Wow that’s incredibly cheap.

Hm. Downtown Portland is $2/hr. I would not say $4/hr is 'incredibly cheap'.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#186

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #124

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“You have very very different kinds of people living in close physical proximity who often want nothing to do with each other.” Knowing that the US is probably one of the most segregated countries, this makes me smile :-)

The US is a widely diverse country, including internally. Milwaukee is quite segregated, Sacramento isn't. There is a wide spread, depending on where you are. Overall, the US is about average diversity compared to other countries.

If you factor in economics that picture gets worse for the US relative to most countries. The divide between rich and poor is large and growing.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#187

Post by brohee » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #154

dsnuh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with licensing requirements in other countries, are they more rigorous?

Here in the UK, you need to take a multiple-choice theory test and a practical driving test. The practical test takes about 40 minutes and is conducted on public roads. The pass rate for both the theory and practical test is about 50%. It's not uncommon for learners to fail the practical test several times. You're not required to have professional instruction but the vast majority of people do, because it's extremely…

Basically the same thing in France.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#188

Post by stephengillie » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

wool_gather wrote: post #130

runarberg wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the Sound Transit 550. It is the main (only direct?) busline between downtown Seattle and Bellevue. During rush hour it comes at an interval of 10 - 15 min. The bus it self is a double wagon (with an accordion connection), it fits maybe (beware I'm pulling this figure from thin air) 50 people. It is always crowded with people standing back to front. During these 10 - 15 minutes one can only imagine how many peop…

50 is too low for an articulated bus. Including standing room, but not at sardine levels, you should at least be getting close to 90.

The bus has 50 seats, and standing room for maybe 20-25. This includes having 1-2 people standing unsafely on the swivel plate in the middle of the bus.

One of the issues in general with increasing Seattle-Bellevue throughput is having to bridge the lake. I-90 traded a separate bridge of dedicated express lanes, for HOV lanes combined with other traffic - so the under construction Link light rail can use that separate bridge. 520 is another option, but there's a toll since they just replaced the narrow 2-lane pontoon bridge with 4-lane highway that's suspended higher above the water.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#189

Post by stcredzero » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 7:48 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #16

angarg12 wrote: post #2

I visited the US (particularly the bay area) for the first time recently, and I was baffled by the sparsity of buildings. Suburbs and shopping areas are so far away that you need a car to go anywhere, and in turn you need massive expanses to held all those vehicles, which means that stores are even more spread apart, which essentially becomes a snowball. Being used to high density housing and underground parking spac…

This is how we have had such economic growth. We use our own population as a testbed where we disintermediate all of our own cultural support systems so that everything must be hired out. Food, transport, entertainment, self concept, family, all of it has been reformed in the U.S. over the last 100 years to replace community labor with commercial relations. This means we get first dibs on these new industries (Softwa…

It’s possible we sold out some cultural knowledge in the process

We've lost most of our knowledge about how to create civic spaces of value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ

The bulk of our old growth culture we just slaughtered on arrival.

A lot of it was transformed.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#190

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