Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#181

Post by mboto » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:04 PM UTC

lixtra wrote: post #43

kerng wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is not uncommon, even nowadays. Noone likes to admit it because being politically correct and stuff. Even at company parties at big corporations, some Sales and Marketing folks tend go a bit overboard - and employees hooking up with each isn't unusual during such festivities either.

> employees hooking up with each isn't unusual Of course they do. Employees are not slaves. They are free to bond as they like.

Isn't this a cultural difference in the US that's different from Europe, in that colleagues don't get involved?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#182

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:07 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #172

SolarNet wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like they have a choice? Did you see the part where it's basically impossible for women to succeed in business as any average man would because of this system?

Woman can use their sexuality to succeed.

Sure, but so can men. People don't assume men do, though - but the'll assume a woman that does well has put in time on her back.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#183

Post by coldtea » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:07 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #164

BadassFractal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read recently that the Chinese have a term for that, something like "Western white savior" to refer to westerners who moralize about Chinese culture and act like they will show the morally primitive East the righteous way forward with their progressive views.

Correct. Japanese do as well. The idea that Americans are going to bring up the cultureless sexist/racist/whatever Asians is indeed made fun of regularly. Well-meaning Americans have decent intentions but are also pretty culturally tone deaf on Asian societies; before we seek to export social justice, we should probably figure out how and why their societies are structured the way they are and understand the timeline…

>Well-meaning Americans have decent intentions but are also pretty culturally tone deaf on Asian societies

That. And because the country was founded by religious zealots, it still has a Christ complex to this day, regardless of if it involves a Bible Belter or a West Coast atheist. That and superiority ("manifest destiny", "leaders of the free world", "land of the free" and so on), it's just part of its cultural status quo.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#184

Post by mikorym » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:07 PM UTC

rixrax wrote: post #59

duxup wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck in the US 20 years ago, a coworker of mine was assigned to a job where his first account was some old school east coast bank. One night dude calls "OMG man we are at dinner and the sales guy didn't show up so it's just me and them and they want to hit the strip clubs a couple blocks away after this." I had no good advice as I was a n00b too so I told him to call his boss. He was told "keep them happy" so he spen…

~20 years ago I was a sales engineer to the extremely good salesman. We had submitted a substantial quote followed by invoice to one of the tier I carriers in US, but for reason or the other, it wouldn't get processed / paid. Rumor has it that the (now retired) VP blocking the payment at carrier in roundabout ways told to our sales exec that he will be going to Toronto at a given date and that he has never spent a ni…

*in that vein

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#185

Post by kaybe » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:08 PM UTC

underlines wrote: post #7

I'm a foreign CTO working in Bangkok and being fully fluent in Thai showed me that it's exactly the same practice in SEA regions: Got to close a deal with a government official? They'll head to the "bathtub massage" area Huai Kwang. Need to bond with a local Business man? Deal closes there as well. Bond with male work mates? On to the bathtub place! Everyone knows it, there's jokes about it and this particular busine…

So this automatically excludes any woman, I guess?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#186

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:08 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #151

SolarNet wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like they have a choice? Did you see the part where it's basically impossible for women to succeed in business as any average man would because of this system?

what does that have to do with prostitutes having rough sex?

If you don't have a choice to be a prostitute, it has everything to do with it. Forced prostitution is bad enough, but being mishandled to the point of being hurt is worse.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#187

Post by coldtea » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:09 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #178

coldtea wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've worked in both Norway and Sweden (and currently live in Sweden) and I've never seen an office party get even close to going way overboard Perhaps you're not invited to the good ones...

Well, that has been my secret fear since I was about 13...

Same here, so I can't really feel much superior :-)

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#188

Post by coatmatter » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:09 PM UTC

mmsimanga wrote: post #166

Consultant32452 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would not trust any person who cheated on their spouse either. I would be careful about that, because that group includes the likes of Martin Luther King, Jr., Stephen Hawking, Einstein, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to feel the same way, and have ended personal relationships when I found out someone had cheated on their spouse, but some of history's greatest figures cheated on their spouse.

The older I get the more I realise life is complicated. I get the need for us to strive to be the best we can be and to those around us but it ain't easy. Please don't get me wrong, imoral acts should be condemned but often I wonder when I reading wording on headlines whether the person killed 3 innocent people or had an affair.

> imoral acts should be condemned

What defines immorality and how should that condemnation take place?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#189

Post by cm2187 » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #185

underlines wrote: post #7

I'm a foreign CTO working in Bangkok and being fully fluent in Thai showed me that it's exactly the same practice in SEA regions: Got to close a deal with a government official? They'll head to the "bathtub massage" area Huai Kwang. Need to bond with a local Business man? Deal closes there as well. Bond with male work mates? On to the bathtub place! Everyone knows it, there's jokes about it and this particular busine…

So this automatically excludes any woman, I guess?

Anecdotally not the only dodgy business practice that excludes women. In Europe some companies (often state-owned) or public administrations are known to be free-masonry strongholds, and being a member of the right lodge is pretty much a necessary step to progress a career. Problem: despite pretending to be progressive, most lodges are either men or women only.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#190

Post by tomp » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 12:14 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #186

tomp wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does that have to do with prostitutes having rough sex?

If you don't have a choice to be a prostitute, it has everything to do with it. Forced prostitution is bad enough, but being mishandled to the point of being hurt is worse.

So, you're saying, it morally OK to have sex with someone who's forced to be a prostitute, as long as you're not hurting them?!

I disagree. IMO consensual sex is fine (however BDSM it is), non-consensual sex is bad. Arguing the degree of badness, while sometimes useful, is (1) not relevant to the above discussion, and (2) a second-order effect, so vastly less important anyways.