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Suicide rising across the US

cdc.gov

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Re: Suicide rising across the US

#181

Post by pwinnski »

krapp wrote: post #170
kuraudo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't exactly the best time to be a white male. There is a lot of hatred, both institutional and cultural, directed their way.

That's true. But it's still a much better time to be a white male than a nonwhite male, or female, or any type of transgender, in many parts of the world.

It is harder to be a white man today than it was for my father's generation.

There is now almost as much institutional hatred directed our way as there is for... no, that's overstating. There is definitely a lot of institutional hatred directed our way, but it still doesn't come anywhere close to the level of institutional hatred directed at literally every group other than white men.

The gap between white men and everyone is shrinking, but it's still there.

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#182

Post by pwinnski »

Fsp2WFuH wrote: post #108
bifrost wrote: post #53

If there's ever a reminder to be kind to others and to talk to people who might need help, this is it.

Kindness doesn't solve this problem.

Not alone, no. But it doesn't hurt, either.

Suicidal urges often last a very short amount of time (ten minutes or so), and for some percentage of people, a kind word at the right time absolutely does make the difference. It may be a small percentage, but it's worth being kind to all.

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#184

Post by throwaway00006 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #165
castlecrasher2 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "chin up, it's fixable!" Having been suicidal for a number of years myself and having overcome it, in my case it was fixable. People suggesting that unfortunately may not be familiar with something as agonizing as a genetic disorder, and I'm sorry for what you're going through.

I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm looking to put out useful information. Telling an internet stranger "it's fixable" when you don't know what the problem is tends to go very bad places. My initial assertion was that, no, most people don't really want to understand because then they might have to be kinder and that isn't usually on their agenda. Given the pile on of down votes and every reply to me being dismissive an…

This resonates with me. It's very hard to win empathy from those who haven't struggled with suicide. And it's frustrating how many people will confidently offer you advice they've never needed themselves.

Trying to rationalize suicide to someone will almost always lead to more self-alienation, so it's a conversation I avoid almost entirely.

Thanks for being forward. Suicide is nothing to be ashamed of and I believe most of the other comments exemplify the problem. Your message is mostly lost here but I wanted to make a point that you aren't alone.

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#185

Post by cautionarytale »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
User23 wrote: post #2

The article avoids pointing out the obvious, but the map makes it clear this rise is predominantly among white Americans.

Clustered in the central US states, primarily due to relationship issues.

Like many others, I've lived this. The worst is over, and currently I'm merely deep in debt, without material possessions, and signing over my entire paycheck as alimony (yes, all of it). Although my life is currently worth living, knowing what I now know, it would have been better to have simply opted out, rather than go through the years of hell. And that's an awful thing to be able to say.

Each situation is its own, but in general, in the USA marriage is a poor choice for men. If your ex turns evil or crazy, there will be no warning and no mercy.

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#186

Post by scruple »

sp332 wrote: post #96
megaman22 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really surprising that middle-aged men who have been raked over the coals in a divorce and left with a hole they'll never get out of, would opt for an end to the pain.

The suicidal feelings are generally temporary. Only 10-15% of people who unsuccessfully attempt suicide try again successfully. The linked study shows a high percentage of causes that are temporary like relationship trouble or crises within a one-month window.

And that may be a useful perspective in many instances, but it doesn't tell the real story.

Those feelings are certainly not temporary for those who are successful and are also unlikely to be temporary for the people left in the wake of a successful attempt. My best friend killed himself in the 5th grade, then another very, very close friend in the 8th. I've known 3 other people who I would call a friend who have killed themselves. I'm 37 years old and I still think of these people. I don't dwell, but I certainly do remember these events and their supposed causes clearly.

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#187

Post by DoreenMichele »

throwaway00006 wrote: post #184
DoreenMichele wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm looking to put out useful information. Telling an internet stranger "it's fixable" when you don't know what the problem is tends to go very bad places. My initial assertion was that, no, most people don't really want to understand because then they might have to be kinder and that isn't usually on their agenda. Given the pile on of down votes and every reply to me being dismissive an…

This resonates with me. It's very hard to win empathy from those who haven't struggled with suicide. And it's frustrating how many people will confidently offer you advice they've never needed themselves. Trying to rationalize suicide to someone will almost always lead to more self-alienation, so it's a conversation I avoid almost entirely. Thanks for being forward. Suicide is nothing to be ashamed of and I believe m…

I'm extremely tired today, so I am probably not making my points as eloquently as I would like. Although this is a new account, I've participated on HN nearly 9 years and some folks are well aware of that. I get recognized as also being that other handle by a surprising number of people. I have long addressed controversial issues like suicide. That isn't anything new.

Today is my birthday. I am trying to tongue-in-cheek look upon the down votes as HN's birthday gift to me.;-)

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#188

Post by cautionarytale »

sp332 wrote: post #96
megaman22 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really surprising that middle-aged men who have been raked over the coals in a divorce and left with a hole they'll never get out of, would opt for an end to the pain.

The suicidal feelings are generally temporary. Only 10-15% of people who unsuccessfully attempt suicide try again successfully. The linked study shows a high percentage of causes that are temporary like relationship trouble or crises within a one-month window.

This seems far too dismissive--almost like a variant form of "just cheer up".

"Relationship trouble" includes mental agony that can drag out over many years. And the fact that many do not make serious attempts doesn't tell us much about those that will make them.

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#189

Post by rojobuffalo »

ethbro wrote: post #71

Something that doesn't get noted enough in the tech community (and surprised me). Farming, fishing, and forestry far outweighs other occupational groups in suicide rates for men [1]. When standardized against population, at a rate of 90.5 per 100,000 people [2]; vs the next highest, construction and extraction (52.5). For comparison, computer and mathematical was at 32.8 for men and 12.5 for women. [1] CDC, 2012 http…

I've worked in 2 out of those 3 professions. I'm a little surprised they are at the top of the list. Contact with nature on a daily basis is really refreshing. However, economic struggle in these fields is really bad: low wages, price competition from industrial-scale companies, seasonal instability. Still surprising that those are the top 3.

Re: Suicide rising across the US

#190

Post by krapp »

pwinnski wrote: post #181
krapp wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. But it's still a much better time to be a white male than a nonwhite male, or female, or any type of transgender, in many parts of the world.

It is harder to be a white man today than it was for my father's generation. There is now almost as much institutional hatred directed our way as there is for... no, that's overstating. There is definitely a lot of institutional hatred directed our way, but it still doesn't come anywhere close to the level of institutional hatred directed at literally every group other than white men. The gap between white men and ev…

The gap closes, but it closes both ways. Minority groups climb incrementally up the ladder of political and cultural relevance by tearing down the power structures which have implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) served to benefit the white majority, and some white people feel persecuted as their identity with that majority privilege and the assumption of their point of view being the cultural default diminishes.

It sucks to be ostracized, to be tarred with inaccurate stereotypes based on your gender and race, and to have political and social barriers put in place to hold you back on the basis that you are somehow wrong because of the circumstances of your birth, the color of your skin or the configuration of your genitals?

Yes. Yes, it does, doesn't it?

However... no one is lynching white people from trees, holding picnics for it and selling photos of it in drugstores. That is what "institutional hatred" looks like and nothing even close to it is happening to white people, or likely would be tolerated in modern society. What they're getting is the kid-gloves introduction to relative minority membership status.

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