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Scrum disempowers developers

lambdacambridge.com

181–190 of 382 posts

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#181
The four points of the Agile Manifesto follow the pattern of “valuing the preferred over the less critical.” Seems to me that a valid — if not infallible — corollary is that if you practice the preferred TO THE EXCLUSION of the less critical you’re guaranteed to accumulate technical debt. The more fastidiously the less critical is ignored the more catastrophic the reckoning will be.

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have a full and well-groomed backlog waiting for me at my desk, what's there to talk about? Sure, you can, but the the whole point of the PM is to take that off your shoulders and the parent is saying he doesn't want that lifted from him.

A well-groomed backlog is not working code. So I don't get how that somehow means there's nothing to talk about. If there's an agile MVP, it's "write some working code, get feedback on it, then repeat until everyone's happy within some tolerance." Scrum is designed to increase feedback, but it's a floor, not a ceiling.

Sure, but the PM is there for a reason and the PM has roles. There is overlap with what developers can be doing, but we are trained/encouraged to punt to the PM for such decisions, questions, and suggestions.

I get it, but it's now how I do my best work, proxying questions and discussions through a gatekeeper.

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#183

This sounds not so much like a valid argument and more a thinly veiled tirade against one bad project manager this person has had during their career. Yes, most by-the-book approaches to agile project management are bad because they are by their very nature not pragmatic towards the reality of a given engineering team or product organization. No, that doesn't give you an excuse to claim that the tens of thousands of…

I can see why you'd think that. I just want to put on the record that all of the project managers I've worked with have been extremely competent and a joy to work with.

The problem is not the people, it's the methodology that gets in the way of people doing their jobs. The poor implementations of agile that Scrum encourages are what is devaluing project management, not my post.

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estimating is my Achilles heel. Always has been. I'm way too optimistic. My workaround was to do jelly bean estimating. Get guesses from everyone, then use the average. Worked surprisingly well. We did other things to meet that target date, honor that estimate, of course. But that's a longer story.

> I'm too optimistic Have you ever thought much about why, though? When I was young, I was super optimistic - and I got burned by all of the surprises (including the underspecified or unstated requirements), so I started to estimate pessimistically based on experience. But then I got stuck in this loop: "How long will this take?" "Probably two weeks" "What? Why two weeks? Why not two days? We only have two days. Say…

I have thought about it. A lot.

I'm told I work too slow, dive too deep. Now I'm trying to figure out how to do just 80%, "good enough".

When I was a kid, I published shareware. After getting a few 3:00am wake up calls from irate customers, I said "never again". I spent 15 years designing, engineering away technical support calls. It mostly worked. Later on... When my team(s) burned a CD, we rarely had to issue patches, hot fixes.

Customers loved us.

I thought that was the pinnacle of human achievement.

Now, I feel like I'm still fighting battles over things no one cares about any more.

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#185

> the product owner often works alone and the development team simply receives a stream of backlog items that need to somehow be brought into a cohesive whole This is the root of the problem in my opinion. I am not interested in defending "Scrum", I don't like what I know about it, in the few experiments I've been involved in with it (not by choice), I agree it was disempowering to developers, trying to treat develop…

A "one way" product owner is useless.

Backlog grooming is a thing [1]. In fact, I'd say after the Increment, it might be the most important thing. If developers and all the owners are not continually reviewing the items in the backlog together, clarifying them and making sure everybody understands what is being asked for and what the priorities are, breaking down stories that are too big, making sure that, yes, some tech debt gets in there, then all you've accomplished is a kind of mini-waterfall where stories get shoved to the top of the backlog by whoever comes last and then developers hammer away at them frantically at the beginning of each sprint.

> I _do_ think the development team needs a "technical lead" in addition to product owner, not just an amorphous bunch of people "self-organizing".

Scrum consistently fails because everybody thinks in terms of the "who" and the "how." Scrum books are all about the process, the daily meetings, the roles and the responsibility. This a symptom of a much larger issue here, the "technological paradigm" that pervades nearly all corporations. There's an unfailing obsession on organization charts, department boundaries, and processes.

It's all kinda silly.

As somebody who's managed too many scrum teams to remember here's the secret: don't focus on the "who" or the "how", focus on the "what." The what is all that matters. In Scrum there are certain key artifacts: stories, the backlog, the increment, blockers, and retrospectives. Relentless focus on the quality of these artifacts as documents and you will excel at Scrum. But you have to really care about the quality of these documents. Everybody, not just the scrum master, has to keep iterating over these document/artifacts until they are awesome. This means continually refining stories until people know them inside and out. Continually polishing the backlog until it shines. Making sure everybody understands exactly what will be delivered at the end of a sprint, the increment, and when it's delivered having people write feedback and rate the increment. It means investigating and documenting every single time a developer is blocked for more than 15 minutes and then making sure it never happens again.

I've worked with remote/distributed scrum teams and what I've found is that you can even throw out all the ceremony -- the daily stand-ups, the endless sprint review meetings, the endless retrospectives. When the team is distributed between London, Shanghai and Sydney and most of the developers work from home at oddish hours such meetings are impossible. But by focusing on the documents even such a distributed team can fly. So, yeah, at the end of the day this all boils down to effective communication and writing things down. Most knowledge games do.

[1] https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/backlog-grooming/

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#186
post #155
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there was anything like the kind of consensus you're portraying about what these things were called. Different shops used their own terms for things; "architect" meant radically different things from one pre-scrum shop to another, "engineer" even more so. "PM" would be used interchangeably; different people from the same company would tell you it was "product" or "project". I don't like renaming things…

There might not be a clear consensus what a given person does but there are three types of tasks or concerns on the project, as I outlined them. Do you disagree with that? So if Scrum (or any other methodology, for that matter) wants to define a new role (to what end?), they should explain, how they are related to these concerns? What tasks that were traditionally done by the triad are supposed to be done by the new…

> There might not be a clear consensus what a given person does but there are three types of tasks or concerns on the project, as I outlined them. Do you disagree with that?

That's one way to break down the set of tasks/concerns you've identified, sure - but only one. I don't think that the industry as a whole accepts your categorisation into three, or even your paradigm for which tasks do and don't need addressing in this way.

You're coming across as far more ideological than the thing you're attacking, assuming that your particular breakdown must be the canonical one when it simply doesn't have a level of industry acceptance that would justify that.

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, this is where a good leader (SM, tech lead, whoever - I don't mean a literal manager) advocates for sanity on behalf of the rest of the team. Mostly, this just requires somebody to say "No." every so often in the face of ridiculous demands. As SM, it's my job to ensure that not only will the PO listen to concerns from the team, but the team feels empowered to provide that criticism. If neither of those happens,…

This is correct. The article (and grandparent) seems to quickly jump to the assumption that the members of a scrum team are mindless drones - and don't get me wrong, some scrum teams are - but they are empowered by scrum itself to have a say or two itself in what to deliver when. The PO only decides priorities, and is not (officially) allowed to pressure for time and deadlines. In return, the scrum team gives feedbac…

Does Scrum itself empower individual members of the development team? Saying it’s on the developers not to be “mindless drones” and the managers to not be “bad managers” may be true but doesn’t really refute the article’s point. Maybe you have Scrum disempowering developers and (at the best companies) other forces, including other practices and processes, empowering them.

For example, Scrum says responsibility for operations and testing are to be shared responsibilities; you don’t have an ops team or a testing team, or titles, or recognized responsibility. You might have a de facto ops team, but those are just some individuals who have chosen to carry pagers right now. I’ve seen things like this play out and been puzzled by it. I didn’t actually realize until reading this article that people have been giving talks and writing books saying that “subteams” are bad, but it makes sense now.

The point being, not having officially recognized responsibilities is a form of disempowerment.

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#188

Like any and every business theory, Scrum has one or two core ideas that are awesome, but could be explained adequately in a paragraph or two. This does not sell books and consulting, so it evolved into a field of its own. The fact that there is so much B.S. in Scrum doesn't mean that it has nothing of value to offer, though. Here's what I get out of it: 1. Sprints are a better way to organize than Waterfalls. I've e…

You're describing having a well defined goal, setting a critical path, and then regularly updating your progress. What we gray beards used to call "project management".

> You're describing having a well defined goal, setting a critical path, and then regularly updating your progress. What we gray beards used to call "project management".

That's not true at all. The whole point of organizing projects around scrums is precisely that there is no well defined goal nor can one exist. What exists are the client's needs, and those needs do and will change frequently and radically as projects move on.

Therefore, the classical project structure followed by grey beards does not make any sense in software development. What does make sense is to acknowledge that requirements specified by the client do and will change, and it's better to adapt to the client's needs and get everyone involved in the project. Therefore, projects are organized in small bite-size units of work that gradually contribute to implement a product based on the feedback received by all stakeholders, and that these small bite-size units of work are implemented in small time windows. These units of work are short-lived and the amount of effort invested in planning is limited to the goals set forth for that unit of work, which need to be manageable.

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#189
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that a good team does a good job. A bad team doesn’t. I think the focus on methodologies is to get a good result from an uneven team. Companies desperately want to treat programmers like standardized workers that can be mixed and matched as needed. The siren song of the methodology is that maybe it can achieve that goal. I have never seen this work in practice. There are no quick fixes. People can im…

I really dislike agile. A product owner asked me once if I get some benefit from them...and no, I don't. Thry get a lot of benefit from me sharing what I'm doing because they can then keep track of it and communicate it to other people, but I don't get any benefit personally. I want to be the guy who talks to the rest of the employees, implements things and get direct feedback from them. I dont want anyone in the mid…

"I want to be the guy who talks to the rest of the employees, implements things and get direct feedback from them"

I am the same way. I much prefer talking to users directly and come up with a solution instead of having a middle man. But I have noticed that a lot of devs much prefer somebody filtering things for them. I guess to each his own...

Re: Scrum disempowers developers

#190
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I don't assume Scrum should or can fix bad management practices. I'm saying adding Scrum to already-bad management practices is like throwing gas on the fire. Scrum doesn't help. Also, if Scrum is only some kind of special snowflake process that only works when applied in sociologically perfect companies, well then it's useless. I'd rather use custom, ad hoc, duct-taped together management practices that get th…

> What? I don't assume Scrum should or can fix bad management practices. What? Scrum fixes all bad management practices? > I'm saying adding Scrum to already-bad management practices is like throwing gas on the fire. There we need evidence that it is actually so. Haven't seen any convincing data for that. > Scrum doesn't help. The sentence before claimed something else: Scrum makes it worse, quickly. > Also, if Scrum…

> What? Scrum fixes all bad management practices?

What are you saying here? I was questioning your original statement that I mistakenly thought Scrum should fix bad management practices. I do not think that, and no part of that is a criticism of Scrum. The criticisms are other things. Your follow-up just seems confused about your own parent comment.

> "There we need evidence that it is actually so. Haven't seen any convincing data for that."

I've seen a lot of that evidence, in threads like this, in the original post, and also empirical evidence in my own work experience with Scrum as both a developer and a manager across several organizations of various ages and sizes. I'm not asking anyone to take my word for it though. I'm happy to look into randomized controlled studies about effectiveness of engineering teams with or without Scrum. Much like with open-plan offices, I'm confident the evidence shows zero efficacy (despite huge planning overhead costs and time wasters) for using Scrum even after controlling for whatever confounders you think are the scapegoats for Scrum's badness.

It's a good thing we don't have to worry about what you've seen as our standard of evidence for discussing this topic, and we're free to make useful written arguments and discussions, like the linked post in the OP, that also appeal to important qualitative aspects of the problem, like how developers are disempowered, or how management always misuses Scrum-related progress tracking data.

> "The sentence before claimed something else: Scrum makes it worse, quickly."

This is pedantic to the point of making me suspect you're just trolling to argue with anyone who doesn't like Scrum. Yes, indeed, two different sentences claimed two separate but compatible and related things. Shocking!

> "True, but that's not the case. Scrum can be used with advantage in average to good companies"

You're demanding evidence but then just making equally unsubstantiated claims in the opposite direction. What's to say that instances of well-delivered software you've seen weren't done in spite of Scrum rather than because of it. That would need evidence too. And particularly because Scrum requires a far-reaching and globally prescriptive implementation (e.g. do team planning exactly this way and exactly on this timeline, estimate your workload exactly like this, use exactly these meetings, etc.) it strongly suggests the burden of proof is on Scrum proponents to explain why this is better than customized, individually and organically developed workflows that teams use because they are demonstrably working for them.

> "Scrum is really on a tiny framework addressing a few basic things in small team organization."

This is abject nonsense. Even a framework that did nothing but prescribe that teams must do some form of estimation every X weeks would be hugely overbearing bloatware. Scrum goes so much further, prescribing a huge overhead of different meetings, a bunch of specific named positions that have to have specific responsibilities in teams, and overbearing principles that superficially look small in writing but really are huge bureaucratic nightmares, like mandating that all teams should be cross-functional, which is totally disconnected from business realities in many cases, especially for teams whose sole business value is highly specialized domain area.

> "Personally I'd rather work in a company willing to learn how to successfully develop software in some reproduceable way."

This presumes that there always exists some "reproducible way", and that it is one-size-fits-all for the a whole company. You're just denying the premise that customized, situation-specific or team-specific workflows could be the right way.

It's fine if you want to deny that claim as a personal preference or opinion, but you're just taking that as your own assumption, and then tacitly basing various claims about the superiority of Scrum on this built-in, hidden assumption.

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