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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#181

Post by nojvek »

risotto_groupon wrote: post #74
dwighttk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather them try to do end-runs around the law than run it up the gut... (If I had to choose)

Just think of how amazing the museum will be for your great grandkids when we completely dismantle them when, inevitably, their stated mission goals supersede common sense and a responsible relationship to the American public.

I doubt any of the privacy invasions are going anytime soon.

The big tech cos pull in ~100B in revenue precisely because they can capitalize on the data.

As long as there is crazy amount of money to be made, it will keep on getting worse. Having hope on the US govt to do anytime is wishful thinking. Govt and corporations are hell bent on knowing everything about you. It gives them the power.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#182

Post by chatmasta »

dude123456 wrote: post #179
chatmasta wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you get that data before you place the bid? Can you can just bid the minimum amount so you never actually buy an ad, but get the tracking data anyway?

You get all the data (geo, user's year-of-birth, user interests, device type, etc) before you place the bid. All the json data fields are defined in the standard. I can see iOS and Windows-phone in the feed, it's not limited to Android phones. https://www.iab.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/OpenRTB_API_S... You don't actually have to bid. (HN is rate-limiting me) edit: Data is pushed to you as fast as you can process…

Is it pushed to you or do you pull it? Is there no rate limiting?

That’s really creative honestly.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#183

Post by bschwindHN »

mr_overalls wrote: post #137
avoutthere wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can one prevent this and still carry a cell phone? Would keeping one's phone in a faraday bag defeat this constant tracking?

A good start would be using a prepaid mobile phone (paid with cash, via an intermediary to avoid appearing on store CCTV), plus using phone apps that are not tied to your real identity. A Faraday bag for the phone when it's not in use. Honestly, it just depends on how paranoid you want to get, and who your adversary is.

> using a prepaid mobile phone (paid with cash, via an intermediary to avoid appearing on store CCTV)

Nathan Fielder provides a good demonstration on how to properly do this:

https://youtu.be/N9gbdv5cXKg?t=51s

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#185

Post by crankylinuxuser »

codedokode wrote: post #138
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an amateur radio operator, I would expect nothing less for carrying a highly networked radio transceiver with loads of sensors including geopositioning. Simply put: don't want to be tracked? Put your phone in a lead sealed box or leave it at home. Tracking only tracks the phone , not your person.

So basically either give up your right for privacy or don't use any new technology? That doesn't look practical. A better idea would be to ban cell carriers (and anyone else) from using location data for anything except explicitly permitted by law, like help in emergencies or conducting investigations.

Define me the following then about the metadata:

Who does your cell phone's location belong to?

Who does the tower's connection data belong to?

Who does the multitude of tower signal strengths belong to?

Who does the user's cell phone data belong to if allowing multiple apps to use it?

Answer: User's location data belongs: to the user, 3rd party apps they have allowed, and terrestrial cell companies that run towers with the appropriate frequencies for your phone.

The technology isn't the right area to change it. In the end, you're doing stupid stuff with encryption and still emitting point-source radiation that can and will be triangulated.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#186

Post by nojvek »

dspillett wrote: post #31
pdkl95 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most obvious use is insurance companies looking for excuses to deny claims.

As blocking fraudulent claims could remove a reason for my premiums to he higher, I can't say I'm against that. With the caveat, for course, that people are not always where their phone is so this taken on its own would be circumstantial evidence: one would hope decisions are not made directly based on this information.

It’s not in the interest of insurance companies to lower premiums. They only do it if competition is eating them alive. Geico has been raising their margins ever so slightly. I bet they are also the purchasers of ungodly amounts of data for targeting marketing.

Insurance companies #1 goal is to make maximum profits for their shareholders without getting caught with their pants down.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#187

Post by Mononokay »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #93
random6547545 wrote: post #44

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

I can confirm this is happening, I designed some of the analysis systems used. Contrary to what many people assume, this is not just a US thing. It is done throughout the industrialized world to varying degrees, including countries where most people believe privacy protections disallow such activity. Governments tacitly support it because they've found these capabilities immensely useful for their own purposes.

Do you feel guilt over creating them?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#188

Post by pbasista »

dude123456 wrote: post #105
gruez wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Qualcomm IZat location services did a quick check, it's not on my phone (SD 820 SoC). >other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs. I have no doubt some proprietary blobs still remain on custom ROMs, but do those actually send back location data to the OEM?

You have a Qualcomm Snapdragon 820? Oh yes, IZat is definitively there, along with other interesting trustzone applets :) It is running under QSEE (Qualcomm) and/or MobiCore (Trustonic) OS, which is separate from your Android OS. It is left untouched by custom ROMs.

I do not understand.

Even if there was a separate OS running in parallel with Android, how could it access the wireless-networks-based and satellite-based location data? I thought that access to these things is controlled by Android.

In other words, when I turn off e.g. satellite location data in Android, can IZat (which, according to your post, runs outside of Android) or other similar spyware keep secretly using it anyway? That would be quite worrying.

I suppose that the location data can be collected by sniffing the low-level communication between the radio device and Android kernel, provided that it has been enabled in Android first. But even then, how could this location data be transferred out of the device? Are these "parallel-running" OSs also able to somehow "tap into" Android's network layer and send the collected data out?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#189

Post by pacala »

ramphastidae wrote: post #143
mr_overalls wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good start would be using a prepaid mobile phone (paid with cash, via an intermediary to avoid appearing on store CCTV), plus using phone apps that are not tied to your real identity. A Faraday bag for the phone when it's not in use. Honestly, it just depends on how paranoid you want to get, and who your adversary is.

If your goal is to simply avoid your location being sold by your carrier for marketing purposes, an intermediary seems a little excessive, no? Unless you have reason to believe that your local pharmacy or cell shop is selling facial recognition data as well ...

Selling facial recognition data is the next big revenue stream. There is a reason the Googles of the world are gushing over installing internet connected surveillance cameras on every block [0].

[0] https://nest.com/cameras/

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#190

Post by [deleted] »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #101
prklmn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another part of the American mystique is that every politician is for sale via legal bribery where companies donate to their campaigns and get them to do mostly whatever the company wants, totally contrary to the interests of the public.

And somehow people trust those bribing companies more than the politicians?

[deleted]
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