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Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

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Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#181

Post by malnourish »

refurb wrote: post #165
seymour333 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot: 3. This is actually a good thing, because we get health care when we need it and aren't exposed to crippling debt? (your system entirely indefensible from every possible view point)

aren't exposed to crippling debt Whoa there. My family has a good friend whose child was born with a severe genetic disease in Canada. They are paying a ton out of pocket for care for their child since the gov't doesn't pay (night nurse, some physiotherapy). Both parents are having to work full time just to pay the medical bills. For your average Canadian everything gets paid for, but if you have special needs, you'r…

While unfortunate for them (and their child!) that's still a better situation than being in the US.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#182

Post by ThrustVectoring »

assblaster wrote: post #175
justherefortart wrote: post #93

Just don't pay it. That's the solution. Hospitals have these bullshit inflated fees, once they accept the insurance payout that is all they're getting from me. They're all "non-profits" that scam the system by writing all this shit off as goodwill or bad debts.

The insurer only pays part of the bill because you entered into a contract with the insurer that specified that as such. No insurer pays 100% of every medical bill, no matter what, with no expectation of copay or deductible. Even if you had that sweet deal, you would be paying premiums that nobody could afford. Do you have a right to receive services from another human without appropriate payment?

They're not talking about the copay or deductible. They're talking about "Hospital believes that the services provided should cost $X, insurance company believes that a reasonable price is $Y, you now owe the hospital $X - $Y".

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#183

Post by uberduber »

clarkmoody wrote: post #82

Plenty of anecdotes in this thread, predictably. Let's talk about why things are so messed up. The thing to realize here is that total government provision of healthcare is probably cheaper than the way the US does it, but that doesn't mean the market has failed. Healthcare in the United States is anything but a free market. It's the worst of all worlds: special interests extract rents through government regulations…

Yep, the closest thing I've seen to a free market is the pet healthcare market in the US. I've met businessmen who got out of the human healthcare market into vet care because it was so much more profitable even though the prices are way, way lower.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#184

Post by assblaster »

antihero wrote: post #114
nickjj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario. Meanwhile they are still losing ~40% of their income to taxes if they own a small business with no insurance applied. The messed up thing is, the US also off…

The thing that also confuses me about your insurance is that it doesn't even seem to cover the whole amount? I mean what the fuck.

That's the contract you enter into.

You pay a premium for coverage of unexpected medical costs and you agree to pay a copay and pay up to a deductible amount.

If you don't like the contract, enter into a different contract with a different company, or start your own private insurance companyn or self insure.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#185

Post by refurb »

malnourish wrote: post #181
refurb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aren't exposed to crippling debt Whoa there. My family has a good friend whose child was born with a severe genetic disease in Canada. They are paying a ton out of pocket for care for their child since the gov't doesn't pay (night nurse, some physiotherapy). Both parents are having to work full time just to pay the medical bills. For your average Canadian everything gets paid for, but if you have special needs, you'r…

While unfortunate for them (and their child!) that's still a better situation than being in the US.

If they were in the US and gainfully employed, a lot of that extra care would be covered by their medical insurance.

Of course, if they lost their job they'd be SOL.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#186

Post by assblaster »

Here's an interesting fact: Obamacare forced everyone to enter into a contract with insurance companies (individual mandate) who are partly responsible for the exorbitant bills seen by patient.

No wonder so many people are pissed about Obamacare: being forced into contracts with companies and bureaucrats which people detest is absurdly Kafkaesque.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#187

Post by gm-conspiracy »

JacobJans wrote: post #133
Ensorceled wrote: post #45

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital…

I know a Canadian who had a retina detach while in the States. She went to a Dr. in the states. They determined she needed surgery immediately. Unfortunately, the local hospital would not let her have the surgery. Why? The billing department was closed for the weekend. She offered to pay cash. Still, the answer was no. The surgery was delayed for 3 days. In that time, she her situation severely worsened, causing perm…

As a US citizen, how is that not a lawsuit?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#188

Post by slantedview »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

> The argument that I pay for my healthcare in my taxes doesn't hold water either

Indeed. Americans spend more per capita on healthcare than any country in the world, and needless to say, for all that spending we don't even cover everyone.

To put it another way, we _already_ spend enough on healthcare to cover everyone. That we don't cover everyone is a political problem (allowing for the existence of a for profit system with no public alternative), not a spending problem.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#189

Post by slantedview »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

> Are people just so blind to how extortionate healthcare is in the USA?

Yes, Americans are utterly blind to this. It's amazing. But it has taken no small amount of effort on the part of specially interested parties to create and maintain that blindness.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#190

Post by evanelias »

avs733 wrote: post #15

"Hoboken University Medical Center, where Pell was seen, declined to comment on the bill. The hospital did, according to Pell, reverse the entire balance after Vox began inquiring about the fees." I'll bet the hospital sees that as 'fixing the situation' and all I am left wondering is how many other people don't have Vox reporters sending emails for the same type of treatment. I'm hoping the CMS plan [0] to require p…

Hidden price-gouging is a real problem here. CarePoint Health, the company that operates this facility and a couple others nearby in Jersey City and Bayonne, has a reputation of consistently exorbitant ER bills, in addition to only accepting a limited set of insurance providers.

On the other hand, Hoboken University Medical Center would have closed a decade ago if not purchased by CarePoint at the time. Prior to that acquisition, it was a non-profit community hospital for over 140 years -- it's the oldest hospital in the state, but it eventually hit severe financial difficulties. Today it has a good reputation in some areas, especially obstetrics. But as someone who lives a few blocks away, the poor reputation of its ER's billing practices is definitely worrisome.

Disclosure: I worked at the same company as Jess Pell and vaguely recall hearing about this overbilling situation a while back, but that's far from the only time I've heard about this particular ER overbilling someone.

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