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Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

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Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#181

Post by franciscop »

btilly wrote: post #37
ddevault wrote: post #15

The reason Duolingo is ineffective in my opinion is multi-faceted. First, my main language for study is Japanese, and Duolingo's Japanese course is awful - these are the specific things I noticed when trying it: - There were several factual errors in their material and important points entirely omitted - Japanese grammar is very flexible and their tools aren't, so they often mark you as wrong when you were correct -…

...trying to cram their prepackaged square-shaped tools into a variety of circle-shaped holes. All languages are different and each requires a different approach. The first half of this is dead on. The second half is wrong. Duolingo's top languages are in the Indo-European family. (Their most learned language is English, next is Spanish.) Their techniques are perfectly adequate for gaining elementary vocabulary a bas…

Funny that you say the example of ADJ+NOUN and NOUN+ADJ, since in Spanish both are valid! But not for every adjective, and many times the meaning actually changes:

- Different meaning: Es un pobre hombre (pity). Es un hombre pobre (poor).

- Same meaning: Tienes un excelente humor. Tienes un humor excelente. [1]

- Emphasis: ¿Ya os habéis mudado a la nueva casa? ¿Ya os habéis mudado a la casa nueva?

In your specific example, "negra camisa", while it is valid it does sound archaic. However this does not mean that ADJ+NOUN are wrong in Spanish. Not at all.

Edit, more on the topic here: http://adjetivos.org/adjetivos-especificativos-y-explicativo...

[1] https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjetivo_especificativo

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#183

Post by alangou »

alangou wrote: post #147
carlosgg wrote: post #140

Does anyone have any experience with the Fluent Forever approach? Their Kickstarter campaign received more than twice the amount requested[0]. Their book is currently selling for $2 on Amazon[1], and has some glowing reviews. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15498952 [1] https://www.amazon.com/Fluent-Forever-Learn-Language-Forget-...

It works. And it's written by someone who's (a) learned multiple languages himself, (b) done the research on human language learning and memory/expertise to condense an immensely effective method into a book. He's gathered a vast amount of material for French, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, and more on his website, https://fluent-forever.com . I've used his pronunciation trainers for Spanish and Japanese, and it's obvio…

And for further knowledge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15508440 - this is the comment that got me to look into Fluent Forever in the first place.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#184

Post by dbolgheroni »

I'm learning Italian with English as the base language. One of the things I felt with Duolingo (at least the "old" version, didn't try the new version) is that the exercises make you write mostly in English, not Italian, which is the main point of why I'm on Duolingo in the first place.

It's rare for an exercise that makes you write in Italian, even when assembling your own sentences is the basics for those who are learning a new language. Finishing an entire module doesn't make you entitled to write anything.

So I inverted things. Instead of the Italian course, I applied to the English course (which I am already fluent) as an Italian native speaker. This way, I write mostly in Italian, with almost no exercises to write in English (same problem with the Italian course).

Learning has been much more effective.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#186

Post by blattimwind »

gboudrias wrote: post #171
ubernostrum wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was unaware of it until it happened. Was told it's a Québecois thing. They also taught me the helicopter joke.

Québécois here, never heard it either. Maybe it's a regional thing or it was a different word.

Not in Utica, no, it's an Albany expression.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#187

Post by dsacco »

davidzweig wrote: post #91
3pt14159 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way will Duo Lingo get you anywhere close to A2 for writing or speaking. MAYBE A1 if you try hard at it for a long long time in a language it well supports. To get to A2 you need a real tutor and real communication experience. I used Verbling to find a tutor and I traveled to Eastern Europe over the summer to practice and only after hundreds of hours of practice was I able to communicate in Russian to any degree e…

Perhaps take a look at 'Modern Russian' materials (Clayton). Great drill course from the 1960s with books and cassettes. I have more recommendations if you want them.

I'm interested in those recommendations.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#188

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

mikekchar wrote: post #179
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice resources. I should probably elaborate on my actual study methods: - Vocabulary study with Anki - Kanji study (RTK order) with a script that shows vocab on my desktop - Grammar study via Tae Kim - Listening practice with regular consumption of Japanese music & television - Reading/writing practice by engaging in Japanese discussions on Mastodon, IRC, 2channel - Reading practice with Japanese manga and novels - R…

For me, I think this list is almost optimal. I'll only add a couple of things. I recommend karaoke as a way to learn pronunciation, tones and pacing for language. Songs aren't in any way indicative of actual language, but it gets you listening for rhythm and tones (even though it's different than natural speech). It also allows you to internalise common contractions, especially with fast songs. Another great way to l…

>Finally, I don't recommend RTK order for Kanji. [snip]

I learn most new kanji naturally as I study with Anki and look up unknown kanji I encounter in the wild. I only idly pay attention to the RTK-order kanji on my desktop status bar. The purpose is basically to have some vocab stuff to glance at throughout the day, it doesn't really settle in but it keeps my eyes used to reading Japanese.

I can second your suggestion to do the first chapter of RTK, though. I would recommend learning maybe the first 100 RTK kanji just to establish a baseline understanding of how kanji work and familiarize yourself with important radicals.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#189

Post by 3pt14159 »

Kiro wrote: post #114
3pt14159 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way will Duo Lingo get you anywhere close to A2 for writing or speaking. MAYBE A1 if you try hard at it for a long long time in a language it well supports. To get to A2 you need a real tutor and real communication experience. I used Verbling to find a tutor and I traveled to Eastern Europe over the summer to practice and only after hundreds of hours of practice was I able to communicate in Russian to any degree e…

A2 is nothing and you definitely don't need a tutor to get there.

If you're actually operating in an environment where it is spoken naturally for a prolonged period of time, I agree with you. Or if you're doing one of those intensive 8 week things with The State Department. But for regular programmers from America learning a foreign language that isn't Spanish it is really hard to get to A2 and impossible without a tutor. I've known plenty of people that think they're at A2 and can't even give basic driving directions when asked on the street. Taking an online test isn't the same thing as actually communicating about arbitrary topics.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#190

Post by 3pt14159 »

amaccuish wrote: post #170
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>for an English speaker, there probably won't be any need to explicitly learn the grammar, since it works mostly like English // For a period in the UK there was no English grammar taught in schools. This caused me great problems in Russian class (second high school language) as I had no idea there were cases in English and so had no reference for why a case was needed and what it did. The entirety of my English gram…

Having left school 3 years ago, I can confirm there is still no grammar taught in english lessons. It was all taught to the AQA exam we did. I studied french and german too, and all my grammar knowledge comes from there and from languages at uni. There's obviously basic things in primary school but that's like where to put commas, that's it.

It's because English grammar is either obvious and doesn't need teaching or is inexplicable and isn't worth trying to make a pattern out of.

I ran, she ran, he ran, they ran, we ran, y'all ran.

I run, she runs, he runs, they run, we run, y'all run.

I'll run, she'll run, he'll run, they'll run, we'll run, y'all'll run.

I thought I'd run, he thought he'd run, they thought they'd run.

We'll have wished we ran, they'll have wished they ran, he'll have wished he ran.

What exactly do you want to teach here? The only weirdness to the rule is that he and she runs with an "s", everything else is the same.

I love you. You love me. They love him. He loves them.

I want you. You want me. They want him. He wants them.

In Russian the above is far different because the word order can be switched for emphasis.

The only thing in English worth teaching is "I have" vs "I am" and almost every language has that same problem as well (Je suis vs J'ai in French).

The hard part with English is that our spelling makes zero sense, unlike Russian or French. The grammar is really quite straightforward.

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