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Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

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Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#181

Post by wsetchell »

aserafini wrote: post #170
wsetchell wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this point frequently, but never really understood it. Can you explain? Here's the flow as I understand it. 1) Advertiser tells tech company "please show this ad to people you think are interested in X" 2) Tech company uses its private data to figure out who to show the ad to. 3) If you don't click the ad, end of story. No data leaves the tech companies servers to tell anyone anything about you. 4) If you clic…

Why does selling information mean 'large amounts of data must be shared'? The explanation is in your point (4). Let's expand on it: I click an ad targeted at African-American, Christian homosexuals, over 40 years old, living in Boston, earning >$100,0000 with a custom audience set consisting of 100 email addresses the advertiser scraped from a forum. By the way, I never told Facebook my sexual orientation, salary or…

Thanks for the explanation!

Short of turning off ads or ad targeting, do you have any ideas about how to make this better?

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#182

Post by Rjevski »

logicallee wrote: post #120
Rjevski wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would you ever pay some minimal amount to go to a conference Yes. My issues with Adwords are the following: 1) they're abused by spam and garbage, so seeing a (potentially good) software product in there immediately turns me off and is actually a red flag. 2) it shows that the developer has no idea of the target market for their product - anyone that has the brains to use a software library would be blocking the Ad…

I have no problem at all with your logic for the specific case you mentioned. (In fact it's easy for me to agree with it.) In fact we're arguing/discussing better targeting now! As a developer you don't want to see an open source product advertised. On the other hand, if you're a manager who can't deliver a feature that your customer is begging for because there is no out of the box solution/library for it, and you d…

The issue I have with targeting is that the ads should be targeted to the content I see, not to me - this is why ads on platforms like Read The Docs are fine by me as they target based on the content of the page they're displayed on, instead of trying to stalk me around everywhere in order to target better ads to me.

I'm happy to see computer-related ads on Read The Docs, but on standard Google I'd rather have cat food advertised (or other generic product).

Oh sorry, I totally missed that you were talking about ads for conferences as opposed to conferences themselves - but again the above still applies; more than happy to see conference ads on developer related websites. On Google, especially when I search for a generic keyword? No, give me cat food any day.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#183

Post by IIAOPSW »

wilsonnb wrote: post #178
IIAOPSW wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just hope people, including a lot of people reading this, remember this for longer than two or three news cycles. Name one thing that people remember for more than 2 news cycles.

Pretty sure we've remembered 9/11 and Pearl harbor for more than two news cycles.

So two events in ~80 years. 1 event every 40 years.

Here's a better game to prove my point: what happened 5 news cycles ago? Do you remember? What were the headlines in January/February this year?

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#184

Post by wilsonnb »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #183
wilsonnb wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure we've remembered 9/11 and Pearl harbor for more than two news cycles.

So two events in ~80 years. 1 event every 40 years. Here's a better game to prove my point: what happened 5 news cycles ago? Do you remember? What were the headlines in January/February this year?

I only listed those two events because they were so obvious that I was surprised you hadn't considered them. There are, of course, far more events that people remember.

As far what was happening in January/February:

Pretty sure the government shut down at some point, I think that was around then.

I also remember a lot of news about the stock market breaking records and some post analysis on the tax bill which I think had already passed by then. I could have that timeline wrong on that though.

I think the Alabama Senate election was around then. That might have been earlier though, but I think there were still headlines about it in January.

That's all I remember off the top of my head. I follow political news more closely than other news lately.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#185

Post by tyingq »

daodedickinson wrote: post #157
tyingq wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's resonating with enough people, if not you and I :) Believe it or not, he was, at one time a fairly eloquent speaker: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4544001/donald-trump-1991-hou...

He used to appeal to his Ivy peers and clearly had to put in a lot of effort to change to a style that appealed to the broadest number of people.

Or perhaps he just has a touch of dementia and a lot of right place / right time ;)

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#186

Post by aserafini »

wsetchell wrote: post #181
aserafini wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does selling information mean 'large amounts of data must be shared'? The explanation is in your point (4). Let's expand on it: I click an ad targeted at African-American, Christian homosexuals, over 40 years old, living in Boston, earning >$100,0000 with a custom audience set consisting of 100 email addresses the advertiser scraped from a forum. By the way, I never told Facebook my sexual orientation, salary or…

Thanks for the explanation! Short of turning off ads or ad targeting, do you have any ideas about how to make this better?

I'd like to see the 'Wikipedia' of social media emerge: a centrally managed, decentrally moderated, non-profit, 'nagware' funded social media.

Most users don't care about federation or decentralisation. They want low-cost and convenience but they're starting to realise they don't want it at the expense of their mental health or privacy.

Nothing can be simpler for the end user than a centrally managed service: I just go to wikipedia.org and start reading/writing. Censorship issues are avoided because moderation is decentralised: the site has a governance framework.

So I believe there's a space for a similar concept in social media. There's no question social media fulfils a genuine human need. But the profit motive inevitably forces commercial social medias to make decisions that detriment the user. For example, 'engagement': a santised term for addiction. Is it good for the user that social media should be continually engineered to increase 'engagement'? A non-profit has no such conflict of interest. It may even take steps to reduce engagement if it believes users are at risk of depression, addiction, anxiety etc.

I would love to talk to anyone who has ideas about bootstrapping something like that (email address in profile).

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#187

Post by logicallee »

Rjevski wrote: post #182
logicallee wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem at all with your logic for the specific case you mentioned. (In fact it's easy for me to agree with it.) In fact we're arguing/discussing better targeting now! As a developer you don't want to see an open source product advertised. On the other hand, if you're a manager who can't deliver a feature that your customer is begging for because there is no out of the box solution/library for it, and you d…

The issue I have with targeting is that the ads should be targeted to the content I see, not to me - this is why ads on platforms like Read The Docs are fine by me as they target based on the content of the page they're displayed on, instead of trying to stalk me around everywhere in order to target better ads to me. I'm happy to see computer-related ads on Read The Docs, but on standard Google I'd rather have cat fo…

I know you say you want it but I am sure that you will love seeing ads for conferences that actually interest you, in your gmail inbox, and you will be annoyed by irrelevant ads (such as cat food when you don't have a cat.)

I've never been bothered by ads I see in gmail.

they're also super explicit about the way in which they collect and collate data and I understand that maybe I will have to make different Google accounts to be targeted to different things.

I guess your and my perspective is just very different. but enjoy your cat food or Amazing skin lightening! (for darker skinned people) ads - they're both very popular products. (the latter is a scam product category.)

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#188

Post by malaya_zemlya »

mehrdadn wrote: post #59
djsumdog wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, very old news. They also blocked URLs to competitors claiming the links were spam. Even if you legit posted the link, Facebook didn't notify you the message didn't send. It just failed silently.

> They also blocked URLs to competitors claiming the links were spam. Even if you legit posted the link, Facebook didn't notify you the message didn't send. It just failed silently. Any links to more reading on this?

They are blocking links to FBPurity.com right now.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#189

Post by Rjevski »

logicallee wrote: post #187
Rjevski wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue I have with targeting is that the ads should be targeted to the content I see, not to me - this is why ads on platforms like Read The Docs are fine by me as they target based on the content of the page they're displayed on, instead of trying to stalk me around everywhere in order to target better ads to me. I'm happy to see computer-related ads on Read The Docs, but on standard Google I'd rather have cat fo…

I know you say you want it but I am sure that you will love seeing ads for conferences that actually interest you, in your gmail inbox, and you will be annoyed by irrelevant ads (such as cat food when you don't have a cat.) I've never been bothered by ads I see in gmail. they're also super explicit about the way in which they collect and collate data and I understand that maybe I will have to make different Google ac…

I don't use Gmail as I don't want to have ads in my inbox. Ads might have a place elsewhere but not in my daily work tool. I'm happy to pay Office 365 for the privilege of not having potential garbage advertised to me.

One of my issues with advertising on the web is the tracking/stalking. I am okay with ads that are targeted based on the content of the current page as this does not require stalking me everywhere.

My other issue is that highly targeted ads (to the individual) create an echo chamber. The thing is, after a day of work, I no longer want to see development-related ads. Give me cat food (or other generic products) instead. This is what I actually like about print & billboard ads in the real world - they're generic and actually make me discover new brands & products I haven't heard of before.

Finally the problem with Adwords and similar online advertising is that there just isn't enough vetting nor review for them - there is a lot of spam, garbage products, etc. Print ads are much better as the publisher more or less takes responsibility for them, so they're doing their due diligence when choosing which ads to run. You don't have that on the web.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#190

Post by logicallee »

Rjevski wrote: post #189
logicallee wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you say you want it but I am sure that you will love seeing ads for conferences that actually interest you, in your gmail inbox, and you will be annoyed by irrelevant ads (such as cat food when you don't have a cat.) I've never been bothered by ads I see in gmail. they're also super explicit about the way in which they collect and collate data and I understand that maybe I will have to make different Google ac…

I don't use Gmail as I don't want to have ads in my inbox. Ads might have a place elsewhere but not in my daily work tool. I'm happy to pay Office 365 for the privilege of not having potential garbage advertised to me. One of my issues with advertising on the web is the tracking/stalking. I am okay with ads that are targeted based on the content of the current page as this does not require stalking me everywhere. My…

I do see what you mean about an echo chamber (filter bubble) and can understand some of your points. I guess Google's advertising has just never bothered me - and as mentioned upthread, one of my machines blocks their ad server so that I can't follow their ads when I try to: many times I've manually gotten around it to see what I tried to click. (This reminds me of how I do like their ads.)

Maybe we have a difference in preferences but I just never felt stalked or the like. I suppose it might change in the future. Thanks for your thoughts.

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