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How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

theguardian.com

181–190 of 355 posts

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#181

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> "The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean." For me, the weirdest part is the way in which the upper-middle class people I now associate and work with talk about "my people" (i.e. the working-class folks I grew up with). They mythologize them as the noble, hard-working, salt of the earth, when in reality, they clearly don't like most of their ha…

I work with plenty of people that may put in a "hard" 2-3 hours of actual work a day. Comparing effort and every poor person I grew up with actually worked really hard.

If anything it's coded language for 'working hard is a great way to end up poor'.

PS: Consider all the "hardworking" people here on HN. Yes, long hours may be expected, but effort has little direct benefit.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#182
post #98
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never order a burger at a restaurant Whelp there goes my dreams of hanging with rich people

Au contraire, just stop by JG Melon on Manhattan's Upper East Side, longtime favorite burger joint of wealthy prep school types (and Mike Bloomberg).

oh wow.. brings back memories... back in the 90s use to go there for dinner on Thursday and then to Webster Hall for Psychedelic Thursdays (free entry with train badge/button)

They had good burgers and chef salad was good as well...

P. J. Clarke's is another one where you could get decent burgers.....

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#183
post #135

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

Do you have a good heuristic for bullshit detection? Anything to look out for?

Is it alluring? Does it fit within some nice narrative? Can it be explained inside a one-page newspaper article? Then it has enough going for it that it doesn't necessairly need to be true in order to propagate.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#184

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> "The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean." For me, the weirdest part is the way in which the upper-middle class people I now associate and work with talk about "my people" (i.e. the working-class folks I grew up with). They mythologize them as the noble, hard-working, salt of the earth, when in reality, they clearly don't like most of their ha…

This is a good point.

We've been idealizing rural / commoner folk for a while. IIRC, French nobility in the 18th or 19th century had the habit of running out to the country and playacting as peasants for fun.

Not to mention there's a glut of 'rural/blue collar porn', (Duck Dynasty, etc) or at least there was a few years back. Some of that maybe people watched condescendingly but there could also be the tendency of portraying these folks as knowing something others do not.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#185
This article is not really about "class passing." It is about "upper class passing." The fact that it uses the term class passing solely to mean you went up in status and need to fit in there is part of the problem. In this framing, lower classes are negated as legitimate social classes.

My maternal grandmother's maiden name begins with von. She came from a low level German noble family. They sold the title when the family fell on hard times.

I was homeless for about a year before I recognized how upper class my mother's expectations were. I didn't think we were upper class. My mother worked as a maid. My father had been a soldier and failed to establish a second career after he left the army. I also didn't think we had money. We weren't millionaires, but when they bought a house when I was 3, my dad had 3/4 of the cost of the house in the bank. They put down such a large down payment that their mortgage payment was about 40 percent of what the neighbors were paying.

I sometimes met people on the street with upper class manners. These were bitter people, failing to adapt to current reality.

I grew up learning to power dress. Being homeless taught me something I had not ever been able to figure out before: how to stop intimidating people and stop trying to win the damn pecking order game, a game I loathe but couldn't stop playing. I learned to wear t shirts with cartoons on them and to see that as a good thing, not something I should be ashamed of or embarrassed by or apologize for.

I learned to be approachable, a skill I never had before. That enormous confidence and ego this article talks about? It is obnoxious behavior that sticks out like a sore thumb in a group of not rich folks. It intimidates ordinary people.

It signals you have power they lack. You feel untouchable. You are confident that even if you fuck up, everything will work out okay.

Ordinary people don't feel that way. When it is clear you do, they know they are dealing with an asshole who will not hesitate to fuck up their life, whether due to obliviousness or casual malice.

Learning to class pass runs both ways. The fact that we don't talk or think like it does tells you how much contempt we fundamentally have for the little people.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#186
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

How you dress is very important. Knowing enough about current events and having your own, thoughtful opinion about them. Knowing a number of books and using them in conversation. Rules on when to be blunt are different. Never order a burger at a restaurant. I could go on but it's a hard thing to summarize. (source: was middle/lower class, now have many 1% friends)

The burger thing depends on context. I know some law firm partners who regularly get burgers at Peter Luger (popular steakhouse) with each other, but would never get a burger at a dinner with clients.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#187

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

>his article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr This experience isn't exactly uncommon. Everyone who had a job during college in a state with a single digit minimum wage then got an entry level tech job in a high CoL area did this. That said, most people who do that don't suddenly find themselves among people who significantly higher up the social ladder when they do that which I think is what…

Yeah, that's what I mean. If your parents were already middle class, you aren't strictly broke earning that in the same sense as you parents were on welfare and you never stepped foot on a college campus.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#188
I highly recommend checking out the book 'White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America' from your local library! A fantastic read about the historical realities of class in America. It reads quite academically, so I think some here would enjoy that style.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#189
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this level of timidity would make you stand out more.

I did not suggest being timid. The whole thing is a structure of symbols of timidity; an abstraction of wealth begetting confidence. So, it is certainly a matter of walking the ridge between symbolic timidity and actual timidity.

Whispering to a friend about what does everything mean is pretty timid.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#190
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That all sounds so miserable. I think I'd rather stay middle class than deal with that stuff.

You have that as middle class too. Try liking somethings considered as "white trash" hobbies/entertainment/activities, or as "posh" ones as a middle class person. (E.g. a middle class high schooler who likes the opera instead of say, Hip Hop or whatever. Or wear some Comme De Garcons clothes around middle class dressed people, or stuff you bought at the Dollar Store...)

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