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Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#181
I take straight amphetamines, much easier to manage dosing than with Adderal.

Been doing to off and on for a decade. Never had any addiction issues, no withdrawal sypmptoms when I skip taking them, and still seems as an effective as usual when i do.

I avoid the whole psychiatrist scam and get them from a real doctor.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#182
I think in many cases the reason people can't maintain focus on programming is motivation, not incapacity. Sounds like bullshit when they say most lose focus after 30 minutes and check their phone. If you're really interested in something you focus on it. Yeah I struggle to focus writing CRUD apps for unsexy products. But I wrote a puzzler game in twenty nonstop hours. I know this is anecdotal but I've seen the same with friends A exercising, B playing videogames, C reading, D playing music.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#183

If anyone here reading this needs the motivation or gentle reminder: you might not need Adderall anymore. I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years. I recently gave it up, but it was hard to realize that it was time. It might be time for you, too. The thing holding me back was fear. Fear I wasn't enough, that I couldn't be efficient. That I would get fired from my high position. Or even if I could m…

I've spent years trying to get off adderall, swinging between having serious addictions with it (even pouring bottles down toilets), quitting it for months, and then eventually coming back to it as work/stress accumulates. A few years ago I quite adderall/dexedrine at a startup, it lowered my productivity as I rushed with caffeine and other things to fill the void, and within a month I was fired as I had become usele…

You sure you're not me? I got into coding seriously in college after I started to take adderall to help study, and ended up making a career of it. I was absolutely terrified of quitting, because I felt like I couldn't do the one thing I was good at without it. I tried quitting and lost jobs over it, several times. It got to a point where I couldn't function as a human without it - I'd just sit in bed and feel sorry for myself. My addiction progressed to needing more than I could convince any doctor to prescribe, so I started getting more in various illegal ways.

I've been off the stuff for about 4 years, and I don't miss it at all. I'm actually a much better programmer without it - I don't get sucked into unimportant details, I have a more realistic sense of what I can and can't accomplish, and I'm more creative. More to the point, I have a life outside of a little bottle of pills now.

I got off of it after talking to some people who'd also gotten off - this helped alleviate my fears that I would have to give up my sweet programming career, and re-framed the problem as a matter of underused and atrophied motivation and willpower. It wasn't easy, but with a lot of love and support I managed to quit for good.

Hit me up if you want to talk - jonathan dot j dot mason, gmail.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#184

If anyone here reading this needs the motivation or gentle reminder: you might not need Adderall anymore. I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years. I recently gave it up, but it was hard to realize that it was time. It might be time for you, too. The thing holding me back was fear. Fear I wasn't enough, that I couldn't be efficient. That I would get fired from my high position. Or even if I could m…

I'll be honest, but I find it very hard to believe that amphetamines can really enhance your cognitive skills. I'm talking from second-hand experience only, but it's pretty clear to me that they can have the effect of making you feel like you're smarter, faster, leaner, better- but this feeling is just a side effect of taking the drug, and does not reflect a real improvement. I can believe that the drugs can help som…

I really hope people don’t read these posts and think oh man I gotta get aderall because everybody is on it. (For people that don’t actually have some serious issue studying.) if you managed to get into a good college without using aderall something tells me you already have the ability to focus very well. I also think this type of post will bring out a large fraction of the small amount of people doing it and make it look substantial.. I for one agree that substantial regular sleep and finding a job that you like, and holding yourself accountable to achieving the goals you set for yourself are far more powerful than temporarily pounding out 1000 lines of code. I have met tons of people over the years who would finish homework before others and half of the time they would be bored and not sure what to do with themselves and end up sort of always confused about what they want to do with themselves and not very passionate vs. the people studying away in the lab frustrated that they don’t “get it” end up finding a love for the material fairly often when they suddenly start “getting it”.. it’s not to say that one day there won’t be a “make you smarter” drug, but I doubt strongly that a stimulant like aderall is it.. more likely it’s equivalent to drinking a small amount of coffee every 15 mins over the period of a long work day. In my case I don’t take anything like aderall and have achieved plenty and been able to work very long and intense hours through a variety of techniques I use. For example, don’t drink all of your coffee right away in the morning, drink it more slowly. When you are on a roll don’t go to lunch or grab coffee with your work mate, just keep trucking. Visualize the feeling you will have when you finish the thing you are trying to get done at the end of the day and stay focused on that when you start to get distracted. Get up and walk around for 60 seconds to get some blood pumping. Kneel down on your knees instead of sitting for say 5 mins. When you get interrupted by a co worker come up with a nice way of saying that you are in the middle of something. Change locations if you are losing interest and focus in what you are working on. Listen to some music without words to help get you into a zone. Come up with a story to tell yourself about why your thing you are working on is important. Think about what food or reward you will give yourself when you get something done that you think is a good checkpoint. Basically my point is that if you come up a set of methods that help you become successful rather than relying upon a drug then you can essentially persuade your brain to keep investing time and energy into your goal and is more resilient long term. It requires you to build up these skills to train yourself to be able to do these techniques, — no silver bullet.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#185
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Are you finding "approximately 5th percentile in the population" somewhere in the DSM, or did you make it up? 2. This is no longer considered true; see any of the recent research on adult ADHD. The last two are obviously good ideas, but they don't really winnow down the pool very much.

I am not an expert, I just did some research on my own. If you know more than I do please share. 1. There are normed rating scales. I assume OP was also tested on one when s/he filled out those additional forms. If I recall correctly they use the 5th percentile. 2. DSM-5 still requires symptom onset before the age of 12. As far as I know some researchers advocate raising the age limit further into adolescence, but do…

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.20...

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent years trying to get off adderall, swinging between having serious addictions with it (even pouring bottles down toilets), quitting it for months, and then eventually coming back to it as work/stress accumulates. A few years ago I quite adderall/dexedrine at a startup, it lowered my productivity as I rushed with caffeine and other things to fill the void, and within a month I was fired as I had become usele…

You sure you're not me? I got into coding seriously in college after I started to take adderall to help study, and ended up making a career of it. I was absolutely terrified of quitting, because I felt like I couldn't do the one thing I was good at without it. I tried quitting and lost jobs over it, several times. It got to a point where I couldn't function as a human without it - I'd just sit in bed and feel sorry f…

Very good points. I do notice while on it, that it's extremely easy to get sucked down into rabbit holes, losing sense of time and of what's important.

I've also run into the same problem you described, of running out of adderall due to more and more tolerance. In desperation it even led me once to get some darknet speed pills off the internet, containing what I later found out to be meth... all due to a lack of available prescription alternatives. (I quickly learned methamphetamine is a completely different animal -- far more addictive, dangerously euphoric, and seriously neurotoxic. I learned to never do that again.).

I'm now experiencing my first health wake up call, which I'm convinced is linked to adderall use: just in the last few months, while using my iPhone I started to notice a very slight shaking in my fingers. Turns out: I have a family history of essential tremors and Parkinsons (caused by accumulated damage to dopamine receptors)... with ALS as a possible risk factor. That's right: A L fucking S.

And I'm only in my late 20's.

Terrifying. The illusion of my own invincibility has been shattered. For the first time in my life, it's abundantly clear that my problem with adderall is no longer just psychological: it's physical. That if I don't make changes soon... things could start going downhill for me -- fast.

I may take you up on that offer when I can muster up the courage. Thank you.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could cut more people's hair by getting it done faster, or do a better job cutting each person's hair. The point is that jobs where productivity improvement is possible are very common. Economically, productivity and technology are equivalent, and are the basis for prosperity. Productivity is not, in general, zero-sum.

The post uses accounting, which, well, maybe it's a different story if we're talking about complicated tax schemes that can save a lot of money, but in general I think we can say that if the workers are more productive fewer rather than more are needed.

More productivity allows the work to get done with fewer workers, which is generally a good thing in normal economic conditions.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post uses accounting, which, well, maybe it's a different story if we're talking about complicated tax schemes that can save a lot of money, but in general I think we can say that if the workers are more productive fewer rather than more are needed.

More productivity allows the work to get done with fewer workers, which is generally a good thing in normal economic conditions.

It seems to me like this claim contradicts your previous assertion that there's "no zero-sum game." The zero-sum game is, they only need so many workers, and if all your coworkers are achieving levels of productivity only possible with chemical enhancement, then you get left behind.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure you're not me? I got into coding seriously in college after I started to take adderall to help study, and ended up making a career of it. I was absolutely terrified of quitting, because I felt like I couldn't do the one thing I was good at without it. I tried quitting and lost jobs over it, several times. It got to a point where I couldn't function as a human without it - I'd just sit in bed and feel sorry f…

Very good points. I do notice while on it, that it's extremely easy to get sucked down into rabbit holes, losing sense of time and of what's important. I've also run into the same problem you described, of running out of adderall due to more and more tolerance. In desperation it even led me once to get some darknet speed pills off the internet, containing what I later found out to be meth... all due to a lack of avai…

> I may take you up on that offer when I can muster up the courage. Thank you.

Please do - it's always a pleasure to help someone out of a bad situation that I've been in. And remember, fear is a prison without walls - you just have to make a decision to walk through that fear, and you're free.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More productivity allows the work to get done with fewer workers, which is generally a good thing in normal economic conditions.

It seems to me like this claim contradicts your previous assertion that there's "no zero-sum game." The zero-sum game is, they only need so many workers, and if all your coworkers are achieving levels of productivity only possible with chemical enhancement, then you get left behind.

This is no different than saying that the street sweepers were left behind by street sweeping machines. Or that accountants got left behind by the invention of accounting software. This is what technology is all about. It's not zero-sum, because there's other work in the world waiting to be done to make people's lives better.

You may have have a bad work environment where you feel like the only goal of your work is to one-up your co-workers. But your boss is not paying you and your co-workers to compete for sport. The reason you are getting a paycheck is because you are giving someone something they value. That person would be happier if they could get it for less money by putting you out of the job. But if that happens, that doesn't mean you should be unemployed - it means you could be helping society in a different way. In a well-functioning labor market, every worker will be more prosperous if they all produce more.

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