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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#181

Post by khedoros1 »

bobajeff wrote: post #89
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

> impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. What is your life like to where you think not having a cell is impractical. In any case a smart phone is fundamentally a weak point in privacy/security no matter which one you get.

What's your life like, to where you think not having a cell is practical? I've already argued that ditching a smartphone would be pretty inconvenient for me, but we'll put that aside. Society has changed in the last 15 years. Payphones are gone, no one plans quite as carefully in advance, people expect updates as soon as plans change, and to be able to choose between synchronous and asynchronous communication.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#182

Post by dingo_bat »

As I noted on reddit, I am not surprised by this at all. Google's entire incentive to maintain Android is the troves of data they collect about users. Why would they let you turn it off? It doesn't make any sense. If you're surprised as a user, you've been really naïve.

Imagine this: would apple ever let you not pay for a new iPhone? Its entire incentive in making iphones is to sell them for money. So it will never allow you to get phones for free.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#183

Post by dingo_bat »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #15

Why is this a problem? What is the harm of them collecting cell tower information? Is it possible to provide the same quality of service(s) without the cell tower information?

Problem is that turning off location makes no difference to this location tracking.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#184

Post by abawany »

matogato wrote: post #108
endemic wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very tempted to go down this route, but it seems to fail the "easy to install and use" bit.

I am a very happy LineageOS user. The installation wasn't difficult: you only need a supported phone and like 1-2 hour of spare time for backup, reading docs, flash and restore the apps. I suggest you to give LineageOS a try!

Another happy LineageOS user, on a Samsung Note 2 (old phone but fast enough to be my daily driver). Works very well and love the Privacy Guard fine-grained controls for apps.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#185

Post by slaman »

horsecaptin wrote: post #176
growse wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majority of their money comes from selling their users' data). Apple has chosen to highlight their commitment to privacy partially because they feel it…

"But this is all just marketing, whereas the reality is that Apple could also be hoovering up location data and you may never know." It isn't just marketing. This is how the alignment of incentives works. A company's incentives are aligned with the people who pay them. Apple's are aligned with those that buy phones. Google and Facebook's are aligned with those that buy ads.

The parent argument is that without transparency it's difficult to actually know.

Apple's true incentive is to provide value for their shareholders.

If they can improve the value provided to shareholders by hoovering up information while also maintaining consumer confidence and sales then why would they not?

I think that Apple's incentives are better aligned with my desires for privacy, but it's only an assumption.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#186

Post by dingo_bat »

rehemiau wrote: post #46

I am using Android without Google Play Services. Some apps don't give me notifications, but most of them work without an issue. Also, I'm using Firefox with uBlock on this phone. Couldn't be happier with that setup and my phone's battery life.

Are you using a custom ROM?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#187

Post by khedoros1 »

imiric wrote: post #42
nvr219 wrote: post #24

If you care about personal privacy and security of your friends and family, you should discourage them from using Android.

What can Android or other mobile OS users do to protect their privacy? Is there a mobile OS that genuinely takes privacy seriously, yet is easy to install and use?

If it has a cell radio, it's broadcasting your location to the tower (since that's how the phone company knows where to route calls to). So the phone company will always have your rough location, regardless of the OS you run.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#188

Post by dingo_bat »

grecy wrote: post #20
jankotek wrote: post #5

Question: If I want Android without google services, what options do I have? So far I know only cheap chinese phones and F-Droid app store.

I used an android for almost a year without logging into anything Google. I can't download apps, but the phone itself works fine, and it came with a bunch of pre-installed apps anyway.

And you're still being tracked in the way described in this article. Google play services just needs to be present on your phone. Doesn't matter if you login or not.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#189

Post by dingo_bat »

mtarnovan wrote: post #82

I soon have to buy a new (smart)phone. Looks like this might just be the straw that pushes me over to iPhone.

I'd buy the new iphones in a heartbeat but I simply cannot spend that kind of money and put up with weird compromises like no haedphone jack or no fingerprint reader. I wish Samsung would have an option to run tizen on its flagships.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#190

Post by username223 »

ams6110 wrote: post #170
eknkc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell all my friends / family to get an iPhone if they are upgrading. I used iOS and Android phones and I like both. However it makes even me nerveous to use a banking application or similar on an Android. Can’t imagine what kind of shit my dad would have running on an Android device with all the fake fishing apps, bloatware, tracking etc going around. With a non jailbroken iPhone I have a lot more peace of mind.

I have an Android phone, but I would never use it (or an iPhone for that matter) to log into my bank account.

I recently got a free Android phone, and would also never let it near anything that could extract money from me, and am conscious of the information it can disclose.

Sorry, legitimate Android app developers! I would like to pay you for the things you create, but your neighborhood is too sketchy for me to visit.

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