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Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

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Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read 400,000 abstracts? That would take something about 3 years full-time no?

At an hour per abstract (seems like a reasonable amount of time to understand the abstract), I get: 400,000 hours = 50,000 days (at eight hours a day) = 208 years (at 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year) If the abstracts wern't really read and understood, just skimmed, perhaps it would be possible to do in a tenth of the time, so 21 years.

I calculated 1-2 minutes per abstract, since abstracts are usually not more than 1-2 paragraphs?

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#182
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The toilet and the stomach bacteria rarely encounter one another, unless you throw up on a regular basis. You're probably referring to gut bacteria, which live in your colon. It's true that a lot of research is being done towards these bacteria, and they appear to play an important role in various systems. However, stools are usually coated in a thin layer of mucus -- which makes them a bit shiny and serves as a lubr…

If you wanted to get data though it would be easy to macerate the stool to collect samples surely.

Sure, but how do you prevent things like TP -- or the previous user -- from contaminating the sample?

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for how a citizen scientist proceeds, go to pubmed.com and read the abstracts of at least 400,000 medical articles. I did.

quality > quantity I doubt there are 400,000 papers worth reading in all of medicine. A major skill in research is understanding what to read, and how carefully. Prepping to write a review usually involves about 150 articles, for me. About 50 of them just need a cursory look, and the abstract often suffices. Another 80 or so need some more attention; you might be looking for patterns in the methods used, cross-refere…

There probably are that many worth reading in all, but remember I read in medicine as a whole with one particular disease as a touchstone and as stated, I read the abracts of 400,000 and took notes on over 100,000; so there were some worth reading, by no means all! It's amazing how much is published, and how no-one is paid to just go read and wander through them. If you decide to just accept the standard consensus view of any moment in time, that will of course be a remarkably narrow view compared to the actual empirical evidence and might be covered in a day, starting with Wikipedia 'cause stereotypes are like that. I was reading, of course, in order to avoid just that problem. Look at everything published in a month or week on a fairly narrow medical subject and lots of tangents from and to that, and your eyes will likely open wider, too.

Very important studies are usually unexpected - that's part of what makes them important so we're verging on a tautology, there. So it's a matter of hindsight, in every field which contemporary articles are in fact "the classics." Your certainty and trust in current authorities broad knowledge and open-mindedness is a product of not knuckling down to read the abstracts of a few hundred thousand unrecommended journal articles - as well as a profound ignorance about the history of medicine.

That history more than suggests that if you want quality>authority (of contemporary publications) you'd better start reading, and reading nearly everything.

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for how a citizen scientist proceeds, go to pubmed.com and read the abstracts of at least 400,000 medical articles. I did.

You read 400,000 abstracts? That would take something about 3 years full-time no?

About ten years, all in, fulltime - because I read a lot of full articles and took notes on many; I have notes with keywords for over 100,000 articles. (Edit: Actually ten years probably got me to 250,000+, the rest since that time when I could devote all my time to that one task.)

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At an hour per abstract (seems like a reasonable amount of time to understand the abstract), I get: 400,000 hours = 50,000 days (at eight hours a day) = 208 years (at 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year) If the abstracts wern't really read and understood, just skimmed, perhaps it would be possible to do in a tenth of the time, so 21 years.

I calculated 1-2 minutes per abstract, since abstracts are usually not more than 1-2 paragraphs?

It depends - maybe three quarters of the abstracts took about a minute, sometimes less, since many are unreliable reports of drug tests that are closer to ads than info; there's also citation mongering resulting in three articles from exactly the same study, by the same authors saying the same result differently; plus many studies are confirmations from one population to another or are unique to tiny genetic lineages without broad implications; also many are review articles just in a new language or me-too studies. Others concern such topics as patient education improvements as opposed to changes in base medical knowledge. As for preliminary studies, these were a good source of gems, but unless they said something truly interesting they were easier to click past since not all that reliable. Finally there were some "we didn't find anything new" studies published; but not nearly enough get published (which has helped to cause the replication crisis.) Still some do.

In other words, there's a LOT of dross, but there are real gems lying there unread and uncited, too.

So only one in ten or a hundred articles might take an hour or more.

Average for all but the vital or good articles (after accumulating a good background and vocabularly), when I timed it back then: 100 an hour without losing any significant information. The vital remainder of 100 abstracts viewed took me (more of a guess, now) on average not more than double that amount of time, again; perhaps less time. That varied a lot because I was looking most keenly for overlooked knowledge(studies) and pairs of studies that were significant only once linked. Therefore I sometimes was willing to follow tangents to tangents just in case and could speed up at that point because it was nearly all dross.

Back when I was in university supposedly studying the history and philosphy of science and language, I had to visit medical libraries and use the CD disks from the then-private company Pubmed, and walk back and forth to a large, printed medical encycopedia chained to a pedestal and the desk-sized CD reader Pubmed provided. I don't include that reading as I took no surviving notes and wasn't counting abstracts way back then. Being able to research online when I returned to medical reading a couple of decades later was an immense relief. Switching tabs to get to a medical dictionary isn't nearly as much exercise, but it is a lot faster. Printed medical dictionaries for professionals have a LOT of pages to turn, in addition to the walking.

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I.e. "But dudes, just WHY is the garbage piling up faster than it can be cleared, now?" Love your plaque line - although plaque is compensation and amyloid beta and tau are not, or not per se.

Not per se, correct. The plaques seem almost similar to remnants of an incomplete chemical synthesis. For instance, glutamate is synthesized in the brain and is used as a neurotransmitter. If a bacterial infection prevented glutamate synthesization (potentially by utilizing some crucial component for it's own propagation), you'd see a build-up of otherwise useful amino acids that would manifest as plaques. The plaque…

Below I am reinterpreting your first sentence as "Not 'per se', correct." (Your original has roughly the opposite meaning of this interpretation, but I've been known to omit metaspeech-indicating quotation marks, myself.)

Your answer is interesting. For those following I should note that compensation means a curative or attempted curative event (as opposed to a disease event such as bacterial infection.)

As what is probably an aside, neurotransmitter production being actively downregulated as a compensatory mechanism (to lower local metabolism needs) is possible, and an interesting thought (whether my thought or your thought) (just not one that creates a buildup of tau etc.) I haven't encountered any evidence that this is compensatory and not just a downstream effect. Your mileage may vary. The evidence that mental activity reduces disease progression might be taken as disconfirmation of such an hypothesis - except that mental practice could be helping mask the underlying (progress of the) disease by increasing skill/adaptation.

Re schizophrenia, I now think of it as a definition affected by a kind of "publication bias." The underlying disease process (or processes) may have rather random results depending on just what part of the brain is most affected - only when the amygdala is strongly affected is a patient likely to get a diagnosis of Schizophrenia, since this can make them (or make them seem) "a danger of self or others."

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#187
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But note that obesity and diabetes (Alzheimer's is sometimes called diabetes 3 and called part of the metabolic syndrome) are now hitting the third world HARD. Something that was highly predictable, and which I feared and mentioned at the time.

The Gates foundation allocates funds based on dollars per Daly (disability-adjusted year) impact. Alzheimer's is important research but it doesn't meet that criterion. Unlike metabolic syndrome (under the traditional definition), Alzheimer's is overwhelmingly late-onset, and the research is also riskier and more expensive.

You jest. Grab some of the estimates of just how staggering the costs will be to us of Alzheimer's alone; as for the third world chronic illness (obesity, diabetes) is already beginning to crush their nascent medical systems. As clearly stated above I contacted them re chronic illness as a whole, not Alzheimer's specifically.

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#188
post #22
post #20

It's great to see more investment into this disease. When my grandma fought Alzheimer's over the span of a decade it was very striking to see that the effect of a lack of hydration and the disease itself kind of overlapped. When she had a particularly bad day we used to give her a saline IV and you could immediately notice how she cleared up and regained her brain powers after each IV. I'm not up to date on current r…

I think the toilet in general could use an upgrade... for how many years have they been built exactly the same way? Has anyone ever done a study of the flow as urine impacts the toilet and bounces back? Or as we learn more about the importance of stomach bacteria, can our toilet start to do more monitoring of the bacteria in our stomach? Love your idea of hydration monitoring and think the application is probably mor…

When I was in the hospital for an eating disorder a plastic container was fitted on the toilet with measurements, and my fluid "prescription" would be adjusted. The nurses would also use this to monitor whether or not I was actually drinking the water they gave me, and there was a nurse present in the room, with the door open.

This process felt extremely invasive. I would have killed for a toilet like what you describe, and I feel as though my physical/medical treatment would have been more successful.

(Somewhat tangentially, the food given at hospitals doesn't make sense for someone who has been nutritionally deficient for years).

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#189

Cynical answer: "because I'm getting old" :) Whatever the reason, this has the potential of being life-changing for a lot of people. Would love to see more billionaires involved with this kind of initiative.

The reason doesn't really matter, this is still incredibly valuable work. Death is terrible, and should be eradicated, but Alzheimer's is a few steps above that. There's nothing worse than seeing a loved one be slowly destroyed by that horrific disease, and I'm so glad there are people willing to work on it.

>Death is terrible, and should be eradicated

I strongly disagree with this statement. We learn through death, and yet we don't know what death is. We do not know the fundamentals of death, yet it occurs on all abstractions.

I think of this poetically, because I don't understand death. But all things being relative, life does not make sense without death.

Edit: On this topic I would also like to point out the eagerness of the immortal mindset. We are living 30 years+ in comparison to our ancestors, but it seems we approach an asymptote. With alzheimers and other neuro-degenerative diseases, we lose our mental faculties. We lose memories, emotions, we lose everything. Yes this is the topic at hand, but does that not indicate something fundamental as well? We have a reached a point where living implies the dissolution of what we used to be, of what we spent so long striving towards the future to do. And at that point of degeneration, we no longer exist in that sense. We can no longer orient ourselves towards the future, and decay while living.

If there is something after death-- if whatever composes our consciousness is actually tangible, autonomous, and not an emergent result of our brains (similarly, if emergence itself is autonomous), then after the alzheimers individual dies in body, he/she will not exist in consciousness either. After this point, his/her consciousness will have dissolved.

And these are rather philosophical points, but this is how I see things. Science and philosophy, science and spirituality even, do coexist in my subjective experience.

Re: Why I’m Digging Deep Into Alzheimer’s

#190
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Death is terrible, and should be eradicated" We are sensitive to death but it is the only mechanism I know that would control overconsumption of natural resources. If nobody dies, then we would deplete the resources in a few decades.

> If nobody dies, then we would deplete the resources in a few decades. The idea of those wanting that is to perpetuate themselves (and their current generation) in eternity, screw successors.

This is also a fundamental problem of eternity. If one is eternal, he/she can create or destroy at will. But our current social model is based upon the creation of successors. In fact, the evolution of the universe seems to be based upon successors, upon the "future". In eternal life, time looks different.

Nonetheless, physical bodies of any kind cannot seem to exist as they are for eternity. Even diamonds decay. Abstractions change as well-- ideas thought to be immortalized actually do change, actually do die. And they can be immortalized in time, in the past-- but towards the future, there has never been a concrete conception of such immortality, only in the frozen sense.

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